Joseph's Tomato Experiments

[joseph]

When I harvest seeds for immediate replanting. I toss the fruits into a blender with a lot of water and turn it on high for about 30 seconds. Water to tomato ratio at least 6:1. The pulp floats. The seeds sink. I dump off the pulp, rinse the seeds a few times, and plant them. If there are more seeds than I want to plant I dry the excess ones on a plate or bowl. Germination is normal.

I am hoping that the fruits have seeds inside. I am further hoping that there are lots of them. I am hoping for exerted stigmas and open anther cones. One of the three known ancestors of this cross came from a family that does very well on frost/cold tests in my garden. One of the known ancestors is tied in first place for best tasting tomato family in my garden. The unknown ancestor attracted a pollinator and had enough pollen to share.

[Jimbotomateo]

Thanks Joseph, great info , had no idea you could do that!

[Worth1]

Joseph I have thought about this for some time and dont really know how to put it.
If you continue to keep mixing the tomatoes and you keep selecting and culling the bad and keeping the good.
Would it not over a period of time all of the tomatoes be the same?
Unless you keep introducing new varieties.
Just a thought.
even with the so called land race corn in Mexico they select the seeds the want to grow for the next season keeping the strain going for untold hundreds of years.
The land race hogs and cattle are kept the same way.

What you are basically doing wit the tomatoes to some degree is the same thing the natives did with corn many years ago so they could keep growing corn farther and father north from where it originated.


What I want to really know is how are you doing with the okra selections and any luck with them?

[joseph]

This year I had horrid damping off with okra in the greenhouse. And then I accidentally ran the tractor/tiller over the patch in the fall. But I still went out and scrounged for seed pods. So overall progress was meh...

I don't select for "same-ness" in my landraces. As long as it's a tomato, and it produces acceptably in the available growing season, then seed is kept for next year.

My plant breeding strategy is closely related to the hard-scrabble methods of the northern Sioux.

Here's an example with common beans: A species that is about as promiscuous in organic systems as modern tomatoes. Sure, those pink beans do the best of any variety of bean in my garden. But while planting, I make sure to plant plenty of the other types of beans. One of these days, I might pull that pink bean out, and turn it into a variety.

[Worth1]

Thanks for your reply I always follow you results.
I have also looked at your article on trying to bring back the garlic seeds that have been bred out over time.
I think it was in Mother Earth News.

I guess my thoughts were in line with the many types of people in Africa that have evolved over time.
I think there are something like 5 or so distinct races depending on where you are at.

With what you are doing be what ever it is called, by constantly culling the bad you should have several you can cross and still have what you want with a large gene pool without so called inbreeding.

[joseph]

Whoops!!! I extracted the seeds from the little tomato fruits this morning. The first fruit I process I blended too long, and took the seed-coat off as well as the gel sack. I planted them anyway. The rest of the fruits, I just squeezed out the seeds into some potting soil.

[Fusion_power]

Worth, one of those races of humans in Africa has an introgression from an archaic humanoid race that no longer exists. It is kind of like Europeans with introgression of Neandertal and pacific islanders with introgression of Denisovan genetics. In other words, humans have been promiscuously pollinating too.

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Worth, one of those races of humans in Africa has an introgression from an archaic humanoid race that no longer exists. It is kind of like Europeans with introgression of Neandertal and pacific islanders with introgression of Denisovan genetics. In other words, humans have been promiscuously pollinating too.

Speaking of Neanderthal man a pristine cave was discovered in France with awesome paintings of horses , lions, bisons , bears and other animals. From handprints of one man with crooked little finger they determined he was six feet tall and I think Neanderthal paintings have been dated to 32 thousand years ago! The place went untouched for thousands of years because of cave in to original entrance! Some guy named cheauvet discovered small opening that he could just sqeeeze thru and squirmed his way in. Everything inside is perfect. There's a locked steel door now on opening so only scientists and people with government permission can enter.

[Cole_Robbie]

I read about that Neanderthal cave. There are signs that some sort of religion was being practiced, and there are also indications that the Neanderthals used fire to heat stalagtites and then tools to break them off when they were brittle from the heat. Everything in the cave indicates that the Neanderthals were capable of much more mental complexity than we've given them credit for.

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I read about that Neanderthal cave. There are signs that some sort of religion was being practiced, and there are also indications that the Neanderthals used fire to heat stalagtites and then tools to break them off when they were brittle from the heat. Everything in the cave indicates that the Neanderthals were capable of much more mental complexity than we've given them credit for.

Yes Cole, the paintings were made in series so by torchlite that they used because the evidence of it is still there, the drawings give the effect that the horses are moving! Pretty smart and and drawings aren't crude but quite artistic and real looking. Although they found bear bones and other animal bones there was no human bones! The people used the caves for ceremonial purposes and not to live in. There's also drawing on stalactite of a woman's lower body and pelvic region. Sort of Venus de milo type art. Jimbo.

[carolyn137]

There are many such caves in France and Spain and elsewhere,and not just used for ceremonial purposes since archaeologists have turned up some Neantherthal bones/skulls inside the caves, and modern techniques have allowed for assessing the DNA and comparing it with Denisovans as well.

When pre-humans left Africa there were two migration patterns,one to the north and ones to the West.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...k1.3_NTJdLrSp8

We all have DNA sequences for both Neanderthals and Denisovans and for several years now I've wanted to participate in the National Geographic genome project to see how much I have and what other places I have genes from.

https://www.google.com/search?q=nati..._AUIBygA&dpr=1

And don't forget the pygmy species found in Asia

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...75.QmTpcG4sicU

and now the links

https://www.google.com/search?q=pygm..._AUIBygA&dpr=1

Yes,I'm the one who subscribes to 5 archaeology magazines and 3 history magazines since it's been one of my main interests forever.

I would have loved to have been a Microbiological archaeologist, but didn't do that as my career evolved teaching med students in two med schools infectious diseases and the immune response.

Carolyn

[Jimbotomateo]

Wow Carolyn! Great links to keep us busy this winter. Really interested in the diminutive types seems like they were in several places and all different! Those finger monkeys are amazing! How do they not get eaten?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Jimbotomateo

Wow Carolyn! Great links to keep us busy this winter. Really interested in the diminutive types seems like they were in several places and all different! Those finger monkeys are amazing! How do they not get eaten?

If you are referring to the pygmies,aka hobbits, as monkeys I don't think so since the hobbits are bipedal and upright always, while monkeys are not.

Just a branch of the old "human" family tree.

Carolyn

[Worth1]

I'm not for sure but I might just might maybe be part Neanderthal on my mothers side.
To keep on topic Joseph could name a variety Neandermato.

Worth

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

If you are referring to the pygmies,aka hobbits, as monkeys I don't think so since the hobbits are bipedal and upright always, while monkeys are not.

Just a branch of the old "human" family tree.

Carolyn

I was referring to humans. I just came across picture of the little finger monkey in one of the links sorry we hijacked Joseph's tomato experiments hope he comes back in with more interesting details of his projects and gets this thread back on track.