Burpee does it again - UGH!

[Zana]

Originally Posted by Wi-sunflower

Yah, I posted about the obvious rip-off of the Tie-dye name over in the catalog thread.

Burpee sucks.

Actually if he wanted, Brad could probably get them for some kind of infringement issues. TV members would be his defense. The problem would be, could Brad afford to sue a big company like Ball ?? Probably not.

Anyone up for a "legal defence fund" for Brad ??!!

Carol

Even if its only a statement of support, I don't know how much else I'd be able to contribute, but I'd be willing to do contribute funds too.

[carolyn137]

Yes, this was posted at GW and I answered there.

I'm one of the lucky ones; I haven't gotten a Burpee catalog in about 8 years, never ordered anything anyway after it went down hill so badly with picture space subbing for content as to varieties.

What got me annoyed in the first place was the introduction of Red Brandywine Hybrid, which was IDed as such, I ordered seeds AND plants and compared those with my own Red Brandywine which I'd gotten from an SSE member years ago and maintained. There was no darn difference I tell you. I never saved seeds from the hybrid to try and prove it was a hybrid.

Fast Forward and we see them introducing Buck's County Red, a hybrid, not saying it was the same as their F1 Red Brandywine. It took a couple of years before they ever fessed up and said that Buck's County Red WAS an F1 Red Brandywine.

Then we have the seedless variety, that wasn't, the Black Pearl F1 which was their takeoff on Black Cherry, and on and on.

I know many of you like their Brandy Boy, I've never grown it and won't.

But to use the same name as Brad used and just attach Burpee to it and SAY it's a hybrid, I don't know if it is or not coming from Burpee, is morally wrong in my opinion.

[mjc]

This is nothing new...go back to the late 1800s and everyone was doing this.

This is one of the reasons that there are now seed purity laws and things like PVP and patents...

And a quick search through the PVP listings doesn't find it, so...there's a chance that if aPVP were applied for the application would be rejected due to there not being a 'significant difference' between it and some other variety. (Plus there's the fact that you need to make publicly available the pedigree.)

[creister]

I looked at the seed prices and wondered if they had the tomato plant the grew the golden fruit? Maybe Mr. Ball attained his seeds from Jack and the Bean Stalk. I threw that thing in recycle bin as soon as I saw the prices and the hi-jacking of an heirloom name. Bad words for Burpee.

[Wi-sunflower]

The pic isn't even all that much of a "bi-color". More of an almost uniform orange to me.

Shoot the cover pic of the SSE public catalog has at least a 1/2 dozen fruit that have a more distintive bi-color. And then you have that georgeous pic of the Orange Russian 117s on the cover of TGS this year. Now those are bi-color.

Carol

[jeffinjonestown]

I wasn't in a hurry to get seeds from Burpee anyway. I've spent the last year making fun of how ugly the seedless on the cover looked. I can't wait to get this year's.

[feraltomatoes]

Only had 5 minutes to spent looking at tomatoville and that was up 20 minutes ago so I am in trouble .
Not sure what to think about this one.
I actually spent a decent amount of money I did not have to advertise this year and it has not been the biggest success.
I see people selling my varieties at outrageous prices at several seed sites. At least some of them give me credit.
Once agian I am tempted to sell out my morals and quality standards to grow a cheap product or make up a marketing scheme.
Gotta go, will check back.

[cdbva]

A quick look at the Burpee site took me to a tomato they call "Tomato Tie-Dye." Were they calling it "Burpee Tie-Dye" at first?

In any case, I find it very disappointing that such a big company can't come up with its own varieties and catchy tomato names. Heaven knows they have advertising people who are paid to think of things like that.

Christine

[roper2008]

Well I have never ordered from Burpee, but I did get
some Brandy Boy F7 in a trade. From all the feedback
people have given about Burpee. I will never order
from them. Most of what I grow is OP, with a few hybrids
here and there.

[Wi-sunflower]

Since Brad posted earlier I've been thinking about what he posted.

He is right to be upset at Burpee.

But he is also upset that others are trying to make money off his breeding work. That's something you have to expect when you release a variety that's Open Pollinated. I do understand him being upset tho when some ask terrible high prices.

I must add that I am someone that is also selling 10 of Brads varieties now. About 1/2 I bought the original seed from Brad and the others I got thru trades here. All the seed is from what I grew out this last summer and saved myself. But I hope he doesn't feel I'm gouging with my prices. I try to set what I think is a reasonable price for a decent sized pack.

My web site is very basic right now. I don't have descriptions or anything on any of the new varieties. This evening tho, I sorted out the WBF varieties and put them in their own spot and gave Brad the credit for those wonderful tomatoes.

But because it's obvious that Brad is feeling hurt by all of what has been happening, I also added this line to my web site -- I am voluntarily sending 0.05 from every Mini pack, 0.10 from every full pack and 0.25 from every larger pack as a royalty to Brad for the tomatoes he has given the world.

I figure it's the least I can do for his breeding work. So far since I started offering his varieties only recently, I owe him 0.15. I hope Brad will accept my offer in the spirit it is intended.

I too know how it feels when it seems things are working against you. I know it's just a small thing but I hope you know that we here at TV all appreciate the tomatoes we get from you, Brad.

Carol

[Tom C zone 4/5]

Originally Posted by Medbury Gardens

Ive only just come inside from sowing some Burpees long keepers for a later season crop, and ..wow,looking forward to reading the responses from this one.

As it happens 'Long Keeper' IS an open pollinated tomato. I like this cultivar ever since living off-grid.

Store your fruit out of sunlight and inna cool area to reduce seed germinaiting inside fruit. Lay them on trays one layer deep.

On a scale of 1 (tasted like cardboard), to 9 (taste keeps you eating fruit untill you have sores in your mouth). I'd give LK no more than a 6. It IS however so much better than store boughten tomatoes. I miss growing them every year I skip them.

[Wi-sunflower]

I wanted to add that I'm listing the WBF varieties in part because there seems to be a big interest in them and last year Brad was sold out of several in just a couple of weeks after he listed his seeds.

I'm also offering my royalty, not because anyone asked or said anything to me, but because I think it's the right thing to do. I doubt Brad will get rich from my offer, but sometimes any little bit helps keep us going.

Buy your seeds from Brad first while he still has them. Then look for them elsewhere.

Carol

[carolyn137]

Carol, I haven't done any breeding, but I can tell you that for many years I've sent the best of my growouts to several seed companies I trust, for trial, and if adopted and listed at those seed places I've never asked for and never received any remuneration and never expected to.

But I'm also thinking of Keith Mueller who did breed Gary O Sena, Liz Burt and I forget the other ones now, that are all OP, and he released all of them and they're now listed at a few good seed companies and I doubt that Keith is getting any remuneration at all. His releasing Purple Haze F1 at one place was coupled to some monies coming back to him for research on autism, which his son has.

it's a difficult issue to deal with, that I know, and Brad I do know how you feel, I do, and Carol I think it's wonderful of you to set aside some money from the sale of Brad's varieties for him.

But quite frankly, it's companies such as Burpee, or would be the same for me if it were Stokes or Johnny's, or Jung's or other much larger companies that were ripping off names.

What Burpee does, I'm pretty sure, is subcontract with I think Petoseed to develop varieties for them, or last I knew they did in the past. There hasn't been any breeding work done by Burpee's proper in many years although I understand they do now have a person or two doing that near their PA headquarters.

A difficult issue indeed.

And Reinhard Kraft is now doing more breeding work and varieties he's bred in the past, all OP's to date, I don't think he gets any money from, I'm pretty darn sure about that. His frind Manfred sells the varieties that Reinhard has bred and I know I get seeds directly from Reinhard as part of a trade each year, and some of those are ones he's bred, Big Sungold Select was one of them for 2009.

Maybe one way out for those who breed tomatoes who aren't professional breeders associated with private industry would be to patent their varieties but I also know that that's a real pain and also involves money, although I don't know how much.

I guess I don't have any good answers to this dilemma.

[Wi-sunflower]

I guess I don't have any good answers to this dilemma.

Me either.

Brad's varieties are the only ones that I know the breeder and are also not very wide spread yet. He is also actually trying to make a business out of it.

I also don't do any breeding as I'm just too busy with everything else. Not to mention often rather disorganized.

I don't know the answer to help out the "small guys" either. I think those PVP things are costly to set up, not to mention don't help a whole lot as far as I've seen.

The example is the Savina habanero when it first came out. It was PVP I'm pretty sure. But within about 2 years, there were all kinds of other "red" habaneros on the market that I would bet were just Savina seeds save under another name. Within about 10 years you couldn't find Savina seed any more. I haven't seen it on the market for a long time tho it may be in SSE and trade circles.

That's why my royalty idea. And as a voluntary thing. If it's too cumbersone or costly to do it, growers will just cheat and change names as happened with the Savina.

Carol

[Dukerdawg]

I received my Burpee catalogue 2 days ago. It immediately went into the recycle bin. I don't know why they still send it. I haven't ordered anything from them in at least 10-12 years. Their prices are outrageous and when I have so many great sources why bother with them?