Fish and seaweed as soil amendments.

[Dak]

Interesting, I just finished reading an article that mentioned fish bones.

"They also feed their crops with solutions containing minerals and amino acids made from castoff items such as eggshells and fish bones."

You can find the recipe here.

[Hotwired]

Originally Posted by Tonio

Hotwired, I would appreciate the source of your information.
RayR, interesting info/link - thank you.

Three sources:

American Journal of Medicine - 47: 101-124
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...02934369902459

Cell Molecular Biology publication 48 (5): 563-569

Also published by Claridges - New Zealand Organics to the World
http://www.claridges.co.nz/pdfs/Nutr...0of%20kelp.pdf

There may be organic forms of Arsenic, but Mercury and Lead content is enough that I personally wouldn't use it. 30 ppm of Lead is rather insignificant, but as I said, I'm more concerned with the cumulative effects over time. You can't get away from bad stuff no matter what. Clam Shells are the main source of Calcium in organic fertilizers, and it's loaded with mercury. Egg shells have antibiotic residue, but I liquify egg shells and add it to my compost. I don't use Kelp, because the nutritional value in NPK and micro-nutrients isn't great enough as to offset the bad things. I'm not saying to avoid Kelp, I'm saying I won't use it.

[RayR]

There appears to be some big differences in the analysis of different kinds of
kelp, maybe because of the different species and habitats around the world and/or the concentration in processing whether soluble powder, kelp meal or liquid extract.
The Nutritional Analysis of Kelp you linked to is for Macrocystis, which is a giant brown kelp native to the West Coast of the U.S. up to Alaska. Ascophyllum nodosum which is the most common kelp used for fertilizer is harvested from the North Atlantic. The highest Lead content I've seen is a soluble Kelp powder by MycsaAg with Lead at 10 ppm Max, another is Thorvin,a dried
kelp meal with Lead at <5ppm, some others claim <1.00ppm.
I didn't find anything on liquid extracts that listed heavy metals in the analysis, but it may be safe to assume that the concentrations of heavy metals would be even less in a solute form.
Regardless, this isn't about the potential dangers of excessive human consumption of Kelp, it is the relationship of Kelp to soil and plants as a fertilizer which is a whole different game of chemistry. Concerns about the cumulative effects of old lead based paint and leaded gasoline I can see, but any cumulative effects of heavy metals in whatever form from Kelp or even fish in the small amounts that they are used, I don't see any reason for alarm.

[Crandrew]

So in short, we're all getting cancer?

So do these levels appear in all manifestations of Fish and Seasweed products on the market?

[RayR]

Originally Posted by Crandrew

So in short, we're all getting cancer?

So do these levels appear in all manifestations of Fish and Seasweed products on the market?

Who said that?
Practically anything on the earth has some trace of heavy metals.
Ever use Rock Phosphate? Guess what...contains heavy metals.
Even synthetic fertilizers can contain trace heavy metals.
Do you breath air? Guess what...also contains trace heavy metals. Like Mercury

[habitat_gardener]

Only OR, WA, and CA have posted information on metal content in fertilizers. The Oregon site lists ppm of heavy metals.
http://www.aapfco.org/metals.htm

I looked up Maxicrop liquified seaweed and Espoma Tomato Tone
http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_met...oduct_id=14390
http://oda.state.or.us/dbs/heavy_met...oduct_id=17222
and TT has a much higher level of each heavy metal. That doesn't mean don't use it, it means know what the background level in soil is so that you know what the numbers mean.

[Hotwired]

Like I said, I am overly cautious about everything lately. Actually I was in for my cancer treatment about 2 hours ago, so I am a little gun-shy about a lot of things that others look on as safe. It is no fun having tubes shoved into you and Bovine Tuberculosis Bacteria poured into you with a funnel. For me it is a choice to only eat organic and know where my organic food comes from. I'm cancer free and intend to do whatever it takes to stay that way. I'm not impressed with conventional definitions of organic food, which is why I keep my greenhouse heated all winter - real organic vegetables and greens.

[bower]

Originally Posted by Hotwired

Like I said, I am overly cautious about everything lately. Actually I was in for my cancer treatment about 2 hours ago, so I am a little gun-shy about a lot of things that others look on as safe. It is no fun having tubes shoved into you and Bovine Tuberculosis Bacteria poured into you with a funnel. For me it is a choice to only eat organic and know where my organic food comes from. I'm cancer free and intend to do whatever it takes to stay that way. I'm not impressed with conventional definitions of organic food, which is why I keep my greenhouse heated all winter - real organic vegetables and greens.

hey Hotwired,
It's right for you if you want to stay away from kelp, if it's risky specifically for you - the two links you posted are about iodine risks, and that isn't really relevant to the ordinary gardener, but maybe to you. Maybe it is relevant to your cancer treatment or a hyperthyroid condition, so I don't question your judgement in that regard or your decision not to use kelp - it's fine.

I think your general fear about minerals in kelp for gardeners in general is really not supported by the data, though, and is misinformation for others.

I totally agree about controlling your own food source for health reasons (and enjoyment too!) and kudos for making that happen and keeping it going all winter long.
Afaict the only thing worse than cancer is the treatments. Thank god it is up to the individual to decide what they will or will not endure as a 'medicine'. I hope the horrible things you described are really helping and are worth it. For sure, controlling your food is a more pleasant way to stay cancer-free, so carry on, and follow your own concerns in the garden.

[Crandrew]

Originally Posted by RayR

Who said that?
Practically anything on the earth has some trace of heavy metals.
Ever use Rock Phosphate? Guess what...contains heavy metals.
Even synthetic fertilizers can contain trace heavy metals.
Do you breath air? Guess what...also contains trace heavy metals. Like Mercury

I apologize. It's a bad attempt at sarcasm. I agree with you.

Originally Posted by bower

hey Hotwired,

I totally agree about controlling your own food source for health reasons (and enjoyment too!) and kudos for making that happen and keeping it going all winter long.

This. Makes complete sense that you would tightly monitor this.

[TeamTeke]

Well I sure lit a firecracker on the seaweed. Thanks for the discussion but I do not have kelp here in the south Atlantic. It is sargassum weed which is quite different.

For what it is worth...I may harvest a big basket full...add some fish heads and carcasses and let it go to compost and try it in a container or two.

[TeamTeke]

found this online from Barbados-
Agricultural Uses
One of the more popular solutions in dealing with the seaweed is to use it as a fertilizer. However, to gain the full benefits without causing any damage to crops, certain treatments and methods must be exercised. Agronomist with the Ministry of Agriculture, Food, Fisheries and Water Resource Management, with special responsibility for organic research and development, David Bynoe, gave pertinent information, as well as outlined the correct steps one must take when using the seaweed for agricultural purposes.
Based on analysis done by the Ministry of Agriculture, Sargassum seaweed has a nutrient content of around 1-1.5% nitrogen, 0.5 - 1.5% phosphorous, and 1-2% potassium. Mr. Bynoe explained that because of the small concentration of nutrients in Sargassum seaweed, larger quantities are required to experience meaningful results.
With massive amounts of seaweed washing up, persons are experimenting with ways to use it to their advantage. (A.Miller/BGIS)
It is important to note that the seaweed has a high salt content, and if applied directly to the soil, it will increase the alkalinity of the soil. Soil and plants require certain nutrients which are generally taken up better around a neutral pH; so the application of salty seaweed directly to the soil means certain amounts of micronutrients are not going to be available. Correct treatment of the seaweed before application is therefore very important.To treat Sargassum Seaweed for use as a fertilizer, the sodium/salt must be leached. Luckily, this seaweed normally surfaces during the rainy season, and the rain is very useful in diluting the salt from the seaweed. After collecting it from the beach, simply spread it out 1-2 inches thick and allow at least an hour of continuous rainfall for each inch.
It is also a good idea to chop the seaweed into smaller particles, as this will allow the nutrients to be released even faster.
Composting is another option which makes the nutrients more readily available to plants. The seaweed should not be applied directly to plants. Instead, a drain should be dug between two plants and the seaweed placed along the middle.
As Mr. Bynoe pointed out, Sargassum Seaweed could be easily converted into liquid fertilizer, saving small scale farmers/gardeners a great deal of money. To make liquid fertilizer, the Sargassum seaweed should be placed in a container or barrel with equal parts water and let stand for three months.
Making organic mulch is another way to use the seaweed in agriculture. The organic mulch is a protective layer covering the soil which can help with weed control, increase moisture retention, and promote healthy soil. After ensuring that all the salt has been washed off, a 2-3 inch layer of seaweed should be applied over the soil.
With the knowledge that Sargassum seaweed can be put to good use, Barbadians seemed less apprehensive about it. Nevertheless, as the deputy, director of the CZMU, Dr. Lorna Inniss, stressed: "we need all hands on deck" if we are to rid the beaches of this threat.
alicia.griffith@barbados.gov.bb