Peat Moss vs Coco Coir - Page 2

MileHighGuy · April 17, 2013

Well. Since we are just going off of opinion....

I figured I'd Offer some facts that back up my position on not using Coco Coir.

I understand that some people use it with great success but I feel sphagnum is much better for many reasons.

Here is a better study than I have time to do:

http://www.usu.edu/cpl/PDF/CoconutCoirPaper.pdf

Please at least read the summary at the bottom.

Sun City Linda · April 17, 2013

Earthbox put out coir (breifly) as a replacement for their peat based potting mix. They have since pulled it. No one had good results AT ALL. In addition to problems in the growing season, many report that the coir turns to muck by the next year, so, unlike peat based, coir required full replacement.

Not a good deal at all!

RayR · April 17, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sun City Linda

Earthbox put out coir (breifly) as a replacement for their peat based potting mix. They have since pulled it. No one had good results AT ALL. In addition to problems in the growing season, many report that the coir turns to muck by the next year, so, unlike peat based, coir required full replacement.

Not a good deal at all!

That's really odd that some people would report that the the coir would turn to muck since coir has much more lignin than cellulose. Lignin is very difficult to break down, fungi can break down lignin over time and only some bacteria are even capable of that. Coir should last a lot longer than peat.

It looks like Earthbox still sells the coir too.

Durgan · April 17, 2013

All I know is peat moss about 15 or so years ago was great stuff. It had some fibre. It was often used in the garden to condition the soil.. Then it became compressed dust, which is my objection. I do not use it as a soil less mix, but as as adjunct to open up or aerate my seedling soil. Sphagnum peat is not suitable. It is not even hygroscopic ,take up water.A complete waste of money. And it is all the same except for a different bag. The sellers do not even put the pH figure on the bag.

The big producers may have other issues, but the backyard grower has access to better products than sphagnum peat.

I don't know how the nutrient values suddenly appeared for peat. Peat was never intended to be a food for plants. It is a soil conditioner sort of like mason sand.

It almost appears as if the Sphagnum peat moss advocates want to BS people with cornpone. It simply doesn't do the job, certainly in my case.

Sun City Linda · April 17, 2013

To be fair, many reported problems but only one reported that it turned to muck afterwards. She does have over 100 boxes in operation however. If EB is still selling it, I would guess it is to get rid of stock on hand. The vast majority of posters over there would not use it again.

MileHighGuy · April 17, 2013

Durgan. I understand you don't like Peat.

For the other 99% of gardeners out there....

Use the Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss, It is freaking awesome stuff.

The Coir is too high in K and also very low in Calcium.

For Durgan... again, the PH doesn't matter if you're mixing it into a soil mix....

Preparing soil less it would matter and the PH is very low, that's why people add lime to it.

Lambert has 9 different textures... maybe that will make you happier!

http://canadianpeatmoss.com/peatmoss.html

Now, Durgan.... I know you won't change your mind, but at least people with less practice can make an informed decision.

Durgan · April 17, 2013

http://canadianpeatmoss.com/peatmoss.html

Wow. It appears the peat industry has as problem and they are in damage control. I notice all the typical garden supply and big box sellers are still selling the crap peat of which I have been condemning on this thread.

Instead of attacking coir, all they have to do is improve their product.

RayR · April 17, 2013

With all those grades of peat, you'd think there would be more than one kind available in the stores and nurseries. I agree Durgan that the cheap compressed baled stuff that is widely available is dusty fine milled, OK for soil amendment but not the best quality for making your own container mixes.

Durgan · April 17, 2013

Quote:

Originally Posted by RayR

With all those grades of peat, you'd think there would be more than one kind available in the stores and nurseries. I agree Durgan that the cheap compressed baled stuff that is widely available is dusty fine milled, OK for soil amendment but not the best quality for making your own container mixes.

A few years ago I bought 16 bags of Sphagnum peat at the end of the season and mixed in the garden. It did absolutely nothing. Totally useless.

Redbaron · April 19, 2013

I have to agree with Durgan here. Years ago I got good peat, but the last few years it was crap. I stopped even using it at all. Does more harm than good. Now some of the soilless mixes that have peat are ok, and others not, but just peat you can find and buy at the store? Crap!

tqn626 · April 19, 2013

I yet to try peat moss, it a bit pricey in my area compared to coco coir. I use CocoTek which goes for 11 dollars a brick which then expands to 3 cubic feet.

I also been using empire builder which is a coco coir base mix in some of my Containers.

Vespertino · April 20, 2013

I've bought a mix for my earthtainer (ladybug square foot mix), it contains coir rather than peat. with raybo mentioning it can retain too much water I wonder if I made a mistake (too late, brandywines are already planted in it). However, I live in Texas, and I'm wondering if it might not be much of a negative considering how hot and dry it gets. Has anyone here used coir with success?

kilroyscarnival · April 22, 2013

This last go-around repotting plants into containers, I used a combination of coir (CocoTek) and peat. Roughly even volume, and together making up about 2/5 of the final mix, with another 2/5 being a mix of mushroom compost and commercial garden soil (about 60/40 between those two), and about 1/5 vermiculite. I am hoping that between the peat and the coir, I'll get a mix of fluffiness and a little moisture retention, but not too much.

April 17, 2013	#16
MileHighGuy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Montrose Posts: 52	Factual Information Well. Since we are just going off of opinion.... I figured I'd Offer some facts that back up my position on not using Coco Coir. I understand that some people use it with great success but I feel sphagnum is much better for many reasons. Here is a better study than I have time to do: http://www.usu.edu/cpl/PDF/CoconutCoirPaper.pdf Please at least read the summary at the bottom.

April 19, 2013	#25
Redbaron Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 4,488	I have to agree with Durgan here. Years ago I got good peat, but the last few years it was crap. I stopped even using it at all. Does more harm than good. Now some of the soilless mixes that have peat are ok, and others not, but just peat you can find and buy at the store? Crap! __________________ Scott AKA The Redbaron "Permaculture is a philosophy of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted & thoughtful observation rather than protracted & thoughtless labour; & of looking at plants & animals in all their functions, rather than treating any area as a single-product system." Bill Mollison co-founder of permaculture

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April 17, 2013	#17
Sun City Linda Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: SoCal Inland Posts: 2,705	Earthbox put out coir (breifly) as a replacement for their peat based potting mix. They have since pulled it. No one had good results AT ALL. In addition to problems in the growing season, many report that the coir turns to muck by the next year, so, unlike peat based, coir required full replacement. Not a good deal at all!

April 17, 2013	#19
Durgan Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Brantford, ON, Canada Posts: 1,341	All I know is peat moss about 15 or so years ago was great stuff. It had some fibre. It was often used in the garden to condition the soil.. Then it became compressed dust, which is my objection. I do not use it as a soil less mix, but as as adjunct to open up or aerate my seedling soil. Sphagnum peat is not suitable. It is not even hygroscopic ,take up water.A complete waste of money. And it is all the same except for a different bag. The sellers do not even put the pH figure on the bag. The big producers may have other issues, but the backyard grower has access to better products than sphagnum peat. I don't know how the nutrient values suddenly appeared for peat. Peat was never intended to be a food for plants. It is a soil conditioner sort of like mason sand. It almost appears as if the Sphagnum peat moss advocates want to BS people with cornpone. It simply doesn't do the job, certainly in my case.

April 17, 2013	#23
RayR Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Cheektowaga, NY Posts: 2,466	With all those grades of peat, you'd think there would be more than one kind available in the stores and nurseries. I agree Durgan that the cheap compressed baled stuff that is widely available is dusty fine milled, OK for soil amendment but not the best quality for making your own container mixes.

April 19, 2013	#26
tqn626 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2013 Location: San Gabriel, CA Posts: 145	I yet to try peat moss, it a bit pricey in my area compared to coco coir. I use CocoTek which goes for 11 dollars a brick which then expands to 3 cubic feet. I also been using empire builder which is a coco coir base mix in some of my Containers.

April 20, 2013	#27
Vespertino Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Southlake, TX Posts: 743	I've bought a mix for my earthtainer (ladybug square foot mix), it contains coir rather than peat. with raybo mentioning it can retain too much water I wonder if I made a mistake (too late, brandywines are already planted in it). However, I live in Texas, and I'm wondering if it might not be much of a negative considering how hot and dry it gets. Has anyone here used coir with success?

April 22, 2013	#28
kilroyscarnival Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 614	This last go-around repotting plants into containers, I used a combination of coir (CocoTek) and peat. Roughly even volume, and together making up about 2/5 of the final mix, with another 2/5 being a mix of mushroom compost and commercial garden soil (about 60/40 between those two), and about 1/5 vermiculite. I am hoping that between the peat and the coir, I'll get a mix of fluffiness and a little moisture retention, but not too much.