Black leaf tips. Mold?

[tsipgolf12]

Originally Posted by Dewayne mater

RWG: I may can help you on the posting. I believe the problem is your browser has to be set to accept cookies. Try making that change and see if it helps.

Maybe pics will help. Maybe not. As you can see in this post alone, there are some varied opinions as to whether this is nothing but a little wind damage, insect related, fungal in nature, chemical burn (Exel LG), or a combination of the above. In other words, just about anything it could ever be has been suggested in just 14 posts (this being 15).

Ultimately, you have to make your own judgments on the best info you can get. That's what I try to do and through the years, that has worked extremely well. On this occasion, it looks like I may well have over done a good thing and caused new problems or aggravated existing ones.

FYI: I first tried typically helpful sights like A&M problem solver, (two others from CA and CO), searching here, and google image searches. I never found anything that matches very closely the original problem, which it sounds like you may have too. I would point out again that in the upper left corner of the first pic, you can see a new leaf that is entirely black...that was without question a leaf that was not mechanically harmed into looking that way and that type of leaf damage was spreading daily. I will continue to look for definitive diagnosis, but, my m.o. is to figure out as best I can what it is and then act quickly. If you over analyze to the point of paralysis, you can end up with an unwinnable situation by waiting too long.

Dewayne mater

I to have new growth that is showing some of the black tip and then leaf edge browning. The back of the leaf has a noticeable problem as well. I will set my browser and try again to attach the pictures. I feel that I definitely have a unknown to me problem that I can not seem
to correct.

Thanks RWG

[tsipgolf12]

I hope the pictures are attached

RWG

[KarenO]

I'm sorry you are having such troubles with your beautiful plants. I would be quite upset. Something I see a lot of people do when they begin to develop a problem is that they tend to leave the diseased foliage on the plant and sort of wait to see if it gets worse, which it generally will. At that point, folks will begin using a spray of whatever type in an effort to cure the problem but leaving the diseased foliage on the plant. I t is my opinion that spraying anything on diseased foliage will not fix anything. in fact may serve to spread the problem. the goal of spraying is not to heal diseased foliage but to prevent the spread to healthy parts and other plants. removal and proper disposal of diseased parts is the first thing to do, at the first sign of a problem.
I hope things turn out well for you in the end as we need to remember that the goal here isn't to grow leaves but nice big tomatoes
good luck
Karen O

[tsipgolf12]

Originally Posted by KarenO

I'm sorry you are having such troubles with your beautiful plants. I would be quite upset. Something I see a lot of people do when they begin to develop a problem is that they tend to leave the diseased foliage on the plant and sort of wait to see if it gets worse, which it generally will. At that point, folks will begin using a spray of whatever type in an effort to cure the problem but leaving the diseased foliage on the plant. I t is my opinion that spraying anything on diseased foliage will not fix anything. in fact may serve to spread the problem. the goal of spraying is not to heal diseased foliage but to prevent the spread to healthy parts and other plants. removal and proper disposal of diseased parts is the first thing to do, at the first sign of a problem.
I hope things turn out well for you in the end as we need to remember that the goal here isn't to grow leaves but nice big tomatoes
good luck
Karen O

Thanks for the encouragment...I have been just tasting those wonderful tomatoes in my
imagination since last fall. I have been removing the diseased foliage as I discover it. There still seems to be infection on new growth tips randomly though. Do you have an idea of what this is?

Thanks RWG

[KarenO]

I looked at your newest pictures, try to look up "leaf scorch" or "leaf tip burn" on tomatoes. not really a disease but caused usually by root damage from too much fertlizer (Nitrogen)and/or water. wish i could be more helpful. keep tryin!
KarenO

[tsipgolf12]

Thank you so much...I went to google and found a forum discussing leaf tip burn with a photo
that could have come from my garden or greenhouse it so accurately showed my problem...just like the picture from Dewayne mater. And lucky for me Dr. Carolyn diagnosed the problem for the guy.....just as you suggested too much nitrogen or overwatering. I believe that is going to be it. Will stop feeding and see what happens.

Thanks RWG

[DogsandDirt]

I've been using Bonide Fun-onil concentrate (same active ingredient, chlorothalonil, as Daconil). Way back on the instructions under Fruit and Nut Tree Diseases, it says: DO NOT apply Bonide Fung-onil Multi-purpose Fungicide within one week before or after application of oil or oil-based pesticide. It doesn't give this same warning under Garden Vegetable Diseases, but I'm wondering if there wasn't some interaction between Daconil and the neem and Take Down? Have you used chlorothalonil within this 7 day window?

My only other thought was to make sure ingredients are measured separately and don't rely on the sprayer measurement markers or the ones on any of the products. Use separate measuring utensils.

Hope your plants recover.

[Dewayne mater]

D&D - thank you for that excellent insight! That remains a possibility as takedown definitely has oils and Exel could have interacted with it, but, it had been at least a week between the spraying of those two. I don't think that was it, but you caused me to go back and look at all I'd done one more time. I'm now 99% certain that I burned the plants using too much Exel LG. I got into trouble because of not being careful enough with measurements. My old hand sprayer was the one gallon type. My new one from Solo is a 2 liter. (Love it by the way). The old eyeball the amount you put in just isn't precise enough in a 2 liter scenario as it had been with nearly twice the volume in the old sprayer. Since I was starting from a brand new bottle of Exel, I was able to determine that my amounts were closer to 3 oz per gallon, while 2 oz per is the max amount recommended, and as Ami said, use less on smaller plants.

The good news: nature has been very kind and continues to bring warm days and cool nights. First extended Spring weather pattern in many years in N. Tx. My plants seem to be pulling through this with plenty of new growth and flowering. I only removed 1 plant (shown in a pic) for which I had a back up and think the rest will recover. I'm sure I cost myself lots of tomatoes, but, it doesn't appear I pulled a grim reaper on them all, whew! The only upside I see is that whatever caused the black leaf margins to begin with is gone, and I haven't had any early blight (usually the first disease around here) or other leaf diseases so far, so the only damage so far is what I caused.

Lessons learned: especially when you have new equipment, be extremely careful with measurements because some of our tools are dangerous when used to excess.

Be mindful of potential interaction of oils and other sprays because together, they can cause harm!

I very much appreciate all the replies and helping me work through a panic situation. :-)

Dewayne mater

[Paradajz]

hi, D.m.

not nice symptoms there.

please note, leaf tip burn and other symptoms at your photos doesn't necessarily have to be connected: the first photo shows some fito- toxicity ( my guess would be a chemicals/low temperatures/high-fertilizer-dosage combination ), while other photos and your description show a quite rapidly moving disease/diseases.
CMM looks highly possible there, although i wouldn't exclude good old uninvited fungal guests. could you describe the situation on the back side of infected leafs, or show some more accurate photos of it, stems also? and, another question- does this thing start from the oldest leafs and than climbs to the top or symptoms appear low and high at the same time?

anyway,
with the severely affected plants i would try a combination of 0.2% fosetyl aluminium ( 80% substance, in Europe we got the product from Bayercropscience as ''Aliette flash'' ) + 0.04% copper hydroxide , and then after a week again.
it's a risky approach, but those plants from the photos do not call for peaceful solutions, to be honest they look like you need to pull it out, disinfect the soil and not grow any tomatoes at the same spot for a few years.

with the plants which are still not affected you can go with fosetyl aluminium + mankozeb at normal dosages, and then alternate it with difenoconazole after 5-7 days.

off course, if you still have plants which aren't blossoming yet, a combination of copper + mankozeb alternated with difenoconazole will give you ultimate peace.

anyhow, do not cut the affected leafs at hot- humid and rainy or windy weather, and be sure to disinfect the tools.

Ivan

[Dewayne mater]

Ivan - thanks for that most depressing reply! I want to add a some pictures from this morning to see if this adds any information or confirms your thoughts please.

As you can see in the first picture, I've got some new leaves that are brown and dying. To be accurate, most of my plants have lots of new growth that looks healthy. Some of it has brown tips on some of the leaves. I've show this picture because it is the worst of the worst.

Next, I've attached a picture which shows blooms that are affected and browning and shown less clearly are some leaves with brown tips.

Finally, I've now seen a few leaves in my dirt garden with leaf edges/margins showing some black and withering leaf tips. This is what I first saw in my container garden. What is this?

I contacted the mfg of Exel and asked for any info on burns from too much of the product. They quickly responded but, they had no pictures of leaf burn from over application. Here is what they said: "The product is systemic and anywhere from day 14-21 post application the product turns into nutritional phosphorous which the plant then consumes as nutrients. Because Tomatoes are very sensitive to their environment it may be possible that you burned the plant. We recommend that you contact your local extension service in your county they will be able to help you distinguish a burn as well as help you identify if the plant has a fungus."

Thanks for all your assistance so far!

Dewayne mater

[Paradajz]

hi, DM,

tough questions with your gardens, but not depressing at all

let me try from the beginning, and with some kind of order:

1.
nobody can tell you what it is by photos only, at least 5 things could cause this, so we can talk only probabilities here. the absolutely smartest move you could make is to take a piece of an infected plant to the lab and get a positive answer.

2.
i recommended a fosetyl al./copper mix with a purpose, but it was based on the presumption that you only had a couple of plants severely affected while the large majority was doing just fine?
the purpose of such mix was to determine what it is: this combination covers Late Blight, and it is also proved to help with bacteria, even with Bacterial Canker ( Clavibacter michiganensis ssp. michiganensis ) which is known for high immunity to copper. the combination is also highly fito- toxic, so it would ''torch'' the bad leafs but leave the new ones protected.
so, eventually, applying such a combination could narrow your field of choices and provide you with answers:
- if it totally stops the disease from new leafs, it's Late Blight
- if it only slows it down or stops it temporarily, bacteria would come as the choice n1
- if it doesn't help at all, it would mean that i guessed what it was at first , and the following alternation with difenoconazole would save the day for you

3.
but now i am under impression that it's already a significant outbreak at your place, so if i am right what it is, it's not that smart to waste time to take the ''experimental mix'' approach .

4.
so i'll tell you my guesses about it:

- the absolutely largest probability is Leveillula Taurica ( rather than Oidium Lycopersicum judging by the yellowish color of the front spots, although i cannot tell at what exact disease stage you took the photos, so i could be wrong about this ) or, in common language, Powdery Mildew, which combined with weather conditions and some clear signs of fertilizers overdose made the atomic excursion to your garden.
i am quite convinced that's what you got there.
- Phytophthora infestans, aka Late Blight, would come as choice n2, but this would mean that you missed a very significant amount of olive- green spots on the leafs of your plants. also, clear necrosis at leaf margins ( i presume photos taken in early signs phase ) strongly suggest PM rather than LB
- CMM would come only as n3 in my list, especially judging by the ultra speed of disease development, and the fact that other from foliage problems your plants don't look weak at all and stems appear unusually healthy for bacterial diseases. actually, if your place was indoor type i would even name Fulvia Fulva rather than CMM.


so here is what i would recommend:

a) spray 0.5% difenoconazole ( 25% clear substance ) + 0.25% mankozeb ( 80% clear substance ) asap, all plants. if i am right this will help, but even if i am not this covers most of the curable diseases spectrum.
b) depending on weather, after 7-10 days spray 0.015% trifloxystrobin ( 50% clear substance ) + 0.25% propineb ( 70% clear substance )
c) if you can't find those, use what ever systemic for PM you can find + mankozeb
d) stop fertilizing asap, any kind of nitro especially.
e) don't worry, it's going to be ok- nothing really scary there


and, finally, a list of general suggestions to you:

- listen to your plants, that's where you'll find the answer sooner than here.

- key factors to determine what it is are not on the photos ( final leaf stage appears the same with at least a dozen different diseases ), but in weather conditions of the outbreak moment ( cold rules out plenty of bacterial and viral stuff, hard wind lowers the possibility of insect- born diseases such as viruses and bacteria, etc. ), exact place where the disease appears ( low means fungal in principle, everywhere means viral or bacterial or LB or PM ), but above all the speed at which the disease progresses ( with PM you'll see unbelievable speed- we are talking minutes and hours not days here, with LB also but still quite slower, viruses and bacteria take a bit more time, etc. ), and finally the overall appearance of the plant ( viruses make them ''shrub- like'', new leafs harshly wrinkled, lower, weaker, bacteria also makes a look of an unhealthy plant, usually stems are damaged too )

- pay attention to fertilizing, you should actually feed the soil not the plants

- pay special attention to seed/seedlings you use, if it really happens to be bacteria you will get to know a long long headache, viruses are like that too

and, finally, i am off.

br,

ivan

[Dewayne mater]

Ivan - thank you for that well thought out, detailed and expert response! I surely hope you are right about the PM and/or late blight! Those I can control. I may well have over fertilized as I used a different fertilizer in the soiless mix of my self water containers (earthtainer) that may be activating more quickly than a more slow release type that I've used in the past. I will definitely not add any ferts for a while and even then, I will use as low a nitrogen product as I can find.

It may be the late cold snap plus over fertilization that added the symptoms I've never encountered before. If so, we are done with cold and heat is coming all too quickly. I'm encouraged by the new growth and flowering. I will keep being vigilant. I try to watch my plants, but sometimes don't hear what they are trying to tell me and that's usually when I turn to Tville! ;-) I really appreciate it!

Dewayne mater.