Looking for the "perfect" tomato plant -- II - Page 2

PNW_D · January 3, 2014

Fred

you may want to consider O Sena Green ......... been a while since I grew this one but I recall it was a nice compact plant, great tasting fruit ........... here's a pic I took a few years back

http://tatianastomatobase.com/w/imag..._Green_016.jpg

**carolyn137** · January 3, 2014

Quote:

Originally Posted by travis

Don't know Lazy Ox Farms. Mine look similar in color, but not quite so flat and ruffled on top.

Edit: Lazy Ox Farm, Alton, MO, appears to be Ron and Margie Lennington. They have an online sales site if you need more information. This is the first I've heard of them.

This past August Fred started a thread about Joe's Pink Oxheart ,which I got from Margie of Lazy Ox Farm at another message site, b'c I'd sent this variety to Fred and he really loved it.

He's going to use it and some other heart varietiesI sent him to breed some new heart shaped small ones, aren't you Fred?

I offered it in my 2013 seed offer here and haven't checked my seeds to see if I have enough to offer it again.

Others went to her site and were very pleased with her offerings and service.

Here's the thread with I think a link to her site:

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...s+Pink+Oxheart

And of course I suggested to the Tville members who went there to tell Margie I sent them.

Carolyn

Fusion_power · January 4, 2014

Fred, Please get a few seed from Travis. I sent him the best of the segregating lines from the original cross Keith made of Eva Purple Ball X Big Beef. I deliberately selected back toward Eva Purple Ball type because it is a good size and shape fruit for general use. I still have plenty of seed but plan to grow most of them this year for seedling sales.

As an FYI, this line when crossed to one of Randy Gardner's disease tolerant lines made a phenomenally productive and disease tolerant tomato with 80+ pounds per plant production. Genetic segregation in EPB X BB was very favorable for total fruit set. In other words, you can cross it to just about anything and total fruit production in the F1 will go through the roof.

Pappi · January 4, 2014

I really like the sound of the EPB X BB seeds. Big Beef perfoms well during our hot summers and if I remember right EPB does as well. I'll have to try and track down some of those seeds. I think Lazy Ox has a minimum order though and that's really the only one I want. I also think I need to start rationing Tomatoville, every time I stop in my garden plans seem to alter. I think melons may be completely out of the mix now

Fred Hempel · January 4, 2014

I will consider O'Sena Green. Thanks for the suggestion!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PNW_D

Fred

you may want to consider O Sena Green ......... been a while since I grew this one but I recall it was a nice compact plant, great tasting fruit ........... here's a pic I took a few years back

http://tatianastomatobase.com/w/imag..._Green_016.jpg

Fred Hempel · January 4, 2014

Thanks Dar,

Were you referring to these plants originally when you suggested Eva Purple Ball?

The F1 observations are particularly intriguing!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fusion_power

Fred, Please get a few seed from Travis. I sent him the best of the segregating lines from the original cross Keith made of Eva Purple Ball X Big Beef. I deliberately selected back toward Eva Purple Ball type because it is a good size and shape fruit for general use. I still have plenty of seed but plan to grow most of them this year for seedling sales.

As an FYI, this line when crossed to one of Randy Gardner's disease tolerant lines made a phenomenally productive and disease tolerant tomato with 80+ pounds per plant production. Genetic segregation in EPB X BB was very favorable for total fruit set. In other words, you can cross it to just about anything and total fruit production in the F1 will go through the roof.

Fusion_power · January 4, 2014

Eva Purple Ball has a huge positive trait in that it enhances flower set. It has negatives that fruit fall off the vine and it is not nematode tolerant. EPB X BB addresses the negatives with better retention of fruit on the vine and a bit more disease tolerance. I was not aware that anyone was offering seed for sale until it was pointed out in this thread. My original comments were directed toward using EPB for the combination of high fruit set plus compact indeterminate growth habit. EPB X BB would however be a better choice since a few of the negatives have been addressed.

Fred Hempel · January 4, 2014

These really sound great. Thanks for the explanation and the suggestions.

Dutch · January 4, 2014

Thank you Travis, Darrel, Fred, and Carolyn, all together this is great information! And a special thanks to Margie for offering this cross.
Dutch

Fred Hempel · January 4, 2014

Dutch,

My understanding is that the EPB X BB cross was possibly made more than once.

I am not sure we have established whether or not Margie (or someone else at Lazy Ox) made the cross. They don't state that the tomato they are selling is from a cross they did.

Dutch · January 4, 2014

Fred,
Thanks, my terminology isn’t always quite right. I didn't mean to imply that she was the original creator of this cross. I have edited my post. Thanks again.
Dutch

travis · January 4, 2014

I have made a mistake in an earlier comment in this thread.

The correct order of parents in the cross is Eva Purple Ball x Big Beef, not the reverse.

I did not make this cross, and I did not send seeds to Lazy Ox Farms.

Keith Mueller made the cross, as I understand it, at the request of Darrel Jones, for reasons he has explained in Post #22 above. Subsequently, Darrel's F2 or F3 seeds were shared among a few people at a tomato discussion board that now is defunct, to the best of my knowledge.

It was another tomato grower in Connecticut who sent me the F3 seeds, and I do not remember whether the Connecticut grower or Darrel himself selected the F3 seeds from among the F2 plants that recombined with traits closer to Eva Purple Ball than to Big Beef.

All I know is that when I grew the F3 plants, the fruit looked closer to EPB in that it was smaller than Big Beef, nearly true round with just slightly flattened shoulders right around the very top, smooth, without any "ruffles" or fasciation, clear pink, sometimes with the tiny white speckles, very tight, pinpoint blossom scars, and small calyx scars.

This is what I continued to select for while also saving seeds from the vines with larger tomatoes and more compact growth habit. Now at the F6, I get tennis to baseball size tomatoes, nearly true round, smooth, no rough or double fruit, no catfacing, no zippers, truly near perfect fruit.

I'd like to grow the F7 plants in a larger block just to test this line one last time before releasing it. I just made my initial comment in response to the question regarding "the perfect tomato."

Lastly, I do not know the people who own Lazy Ox Farm, and cannot remember ever swapping seeds with anyone with their name. That rule out that I might have done so and forgotten that I did. But I sure don't recall doing so. I have to say though that their line has some characteristics that I tried to select away from. Not bad characteristics. Just slightly different. I also don't know who else may have made this same cross or on the other hand who else may have seeds sourced the same as those I began growing at the F3.

Fusion_power · January 4, 2014

Travis,

I had to pull out the original seed pack to see which direction the cross was made in. I show that it was in 2007 and the cross was Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball. I still have about 100 of the original seed. So in this case, I am the one writing the cross wrong. It should be BB X EPB and the statement that it was re-selected in the direction of Eva Purple Ball is of course correct. Note that I grew the seed in the greenhouse one year and got 2 generations which is why the seed are out to the F6 and beyond now.

neilsc · February 8, 2014

This place seems to be selling Big Beef x Eva Purple Ball seeds as well, with free shipping:

http://www.localharvest.org/big-beef...to-seed-C24754

EDIT: oops. their source seems to be Lazy Ox Farms as well, though they claim the tomato is "Medium sized, perfect, round pink tomatoes"

Douglas14 · February 8, 2014

Dutch,
If you go the the Lazy Ox website, it looks like the picture on your seed packet is actually Arkansas Traveler. I think my Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball seed pack from them, also has the same picture on it.
This is the website picture of Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball:
http://www.localharvest.org/big-beef...to-seed-C24754

January 3, 2014	#16
PNW_D Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: West Coast, Canada Posts: 961	Fred you may want to consider O Sena Green ......... been a while since I grew this one but I recall it was a nice compact plant, great tasting fruit ........... here's a pic I took a few years back http://tatianastomatobase.com/w/imag..._Green_016.jpg __________________ D.

January 4, 2014	#24
Dutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: S.E. Wisconsin Zone 5b Posts: 1,831	Thank you Travis, Darrel, Fred, and Carolyn, all together this is great information! And a special thanks to Margie for offering this cross. Dutch Last edited by Dutch; January 4, 2014 at 02:14 PM. Reason: Added the word offering

February 8, 2014	#29
neilsc Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: NYC Posts: 22	This place seems to be selling Big Beef x Eva Purple Ball seeds as well, with free shipping: http://www.localharvest.org/big-beef...to-seed-C24754 EDIT: oops. their source seems to be Lazy Ox Farms as well, though they claim the tomato is "Medium sized, perfect, round pink tomatoes" Last edited by neilsc; February 8, 2014 at 03:11 AM.

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

January 4, 2014	#18
Fusion_power Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Alabama Posts: 2,250	Fred, Please get a few seed from Travis. I sent him the best of the segregating lines from the original cross Keith made of Eva Purple Ball X Big Beef. I deliberately selected back toward Eva Purple Ball type because it is a good size and shape fruit for general use. I still have plenty of seed but plan to grow most of them this year for seedling sales. As an FYI, this line when crossed to one of Randy Gardner's disease tolerant lines made a phenomenally productive and disease tolerant tomato with 80+ pounds per plant production. Genetic segregation in EPB X BB was very favorable for total fruit set. In other words, you can cross it to just about anything and total fruit production in the F1 will go through the roof.

January 4, 2014	#19
Pappi Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Pineland Posts: 126	I really like the sound of the EPB X BB seeds. Big Beef perfoms well during our hot summers and if I remember right EPB does as well. I'll have to try and track down some of those seeds. I think Lazy Ox has a minimum order though and that's really the only one I want. I also think I need to start rationing Tomatoville, every time I stop in my garden plans seem to alter. I think melons may be completely out of the mix now

January 4, 2014	#23
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	These really sound great. Thanks for the explanation and the suggestions.

January 4, 2014	#27
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	I have made a mistake in an earlier comment in this thread. The correct order of parents in the cross is Eva Purple Ball x Big Beef, not the reverse. I did not make this cross, and I did not send seeds to Lazy Ox Farms. Keith Mueller made the cross, as I understand it, at the request of Darrel Jones, for reasons he has explained in Post #22 above. Subsequently, Darrel's F2 or F3 seeds were shared among a few people at a tomato discussion board that now is defunct, to the best of my knowledge. It was another tomato grower in Connecticut who sent me the F3 seeds, and I do not remember whether the Connecticut grower or Darrel himself selected the F3 seeds from among the F2 plants that recombined with traits closer to Eva Purple Ball than to Big Beef. All I know is that when I grew the F3 plants, the fruit looked closer to EPB in that it was smaller than Big Beef, nearly true round with just slightly flattened shoulders right around the very top, smooth, without any "ruffles" or fasciation, clear pink, sometimes with the tiny white speckles, very tight, pinpoint blossom scars, and small calyx scars. This is what I continued to select for while also saving seeds from the vines with larger tomatoes and more compact growth habit. Now at the F6, I get tennis to baseball size tomatoes, nearly true round, smooth, no rough or double fruit, no catfacing, no zippers, truly near perfect fruit. I'd like to grow the F7 plants in a larger block just to test this line one last time before releasing it. I just made my initial comment in response to the question regarding "the perfect tomato." Lastly, I do not know the people who own Lazy Ox Farm, and cannot remember ever swapping seeds with anyone with their name. That rule out that I might have done so and forgotten that I did. But I sure don't recall doing so. I have to say though that their line has some characteristics that I tried to select away from. Not bad characteristics. Just slightly different. I also don't know who else may have made this same cross or on the other hand who else may have seeds sourced the same as those I began growing at the F3.

February 8, 2014	#30
Douglas14 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 602	Dutch, If you go the the Lazy Ox website, it looks like the picture on your seed packet is actually Arkansas Traveler. I think my Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball seed pack from them, also has the same picture on it. This is the website picture of Big Beef X Eva Purple Ball: http://www.localharvest.org/big-beef...to-seed-C24754