Disease or pest, which to treat first

[b54red]

Dewayne I don't think the copper should have anything to react with from the bleach spray and I have never seen a reaction from it. If you use a copper spray too strong it can damage leaves by itself. You may have something else going on besides gray mold. Yellowing is not a symptom I associate with gray mold. Your plants certainly looked very healthy in the above pictures. For me that would be the first danger signal. If I ever let a black or GWR plant get very dense foliage like in the pics above then I shortly get blasted by gray mold. I try to never let a black or GWR plant have more than 3 stems until late in the fall season because they are so susceptible to gray mold down here. I still have not found a fungicide that is very effective at preventing the outbreak of gray mold. From your description of how many leaves dried up after being sprayed with the dilute bleach spray I am assuming that you waited too long to start treating the gray mold. I started the bleach treatment too late on my Berkley Tie Dye Pink last year and a month later it was dead. I have learned the hard way it is better to spray too soon than too late.

Our forecast for the next ten days is high chances of afternoon showers almost every day. All that means to me is more disease coming soon. I am unable to even get out and spray right now due to this crud I have. I already know that gray mold has shown up on my JD's plant and I'm sure the other blacks will be showing symptoms soon; but unless I get to feeling a whole lot better in the next few hours the plants will be left to the kindness of Mother Nature.

Bill

[b54red]

I got out and sprayed my plants with the dilute bleach spray just before dark yesterday despite feeling like death warmed over. I'm about to go out and check the results this morning and try to spray some Daconil on them since the chance of rain is lower today.

After cutting off almost all the lower leaves last week I'm hoping I won't find too many shriveled up from the bleach spray. I am really aggressively pruning the lower growth this year to see if it will slow down disease development. The first bed hardly has a single leaf stem below the first set fruit. With the limited stems and the extra pruning I'm hoping to keep airflow at a maximum.

Bill

[b54red]

I checked the plants but didn't get to apply the Daconil because I just didn't feel up to it; but I was relieved to see only a few leaves shriveled from the bleach spray. I'm hoping this system of supports which is keeping my plants more open and my pruning will delay the inevitable onset of all our familiar diseases. Checked again for TSWV and still no symptoms so far.

Bill

[b54red]

Checked my plants again just before sundown after another light afternoon shower. Found gray mold on my Royal Hillbilly plant. Guess I'll have to do some more pruning and spraying tomorrow. The never ending battle is on.

Bill

[Dewayne mater]

For my north side garden I have 6 earthtainers with 12 plants. 4 tainers were hit hard, one medium and one not at all. They sit side by side by side. Finally, they've stopped dying off from bleach on mold plants and it appears that all will survive. Some may not produce well beyond the current fruit set as they sustained a lot of loss. Still, if I can get the set fruit home, it'll be the most productive year ever for me. Next year, more pruning!!

DM

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Dewayne mater

For my north side garden I have 6 earthtainers with 12 plants. 4 tainers were hit hard, one medium and one not at all. They sit side by side by side. Finally, they've stopped dying off from bleach on mold plants and it appears that all will survive. Some may not produce well beyond the current fruit set as they sustained a lot of loss. Still, if I can get the set fruit home, it'll be the most productive year ever for me. Next year, more pruning!!

DM

Dewayne, I didn't want to say anything but from the pictures of your plants I thought the foliage cover was too dense if you want to avoid gray mold on the black varieties unless your humidity is really low. You could probably get away with that in California or Arizona with their incredibly low humidity. I hope you get good production despite the setbacks you have had.

Bill

[Dewayne mater]

Dang Bill, I wish I had you to walk though the garden with me a few times a year to advise me, because I seem intent on learning every lesson the hard way! The foliage was more dense than ever this year, in spite of vigilant suckering. I think the use of TTF in the water reservoir provided more boost than I knew how to handle. I've got a ton of fruit set at least and I hope to get it ripened.

I've lost a ton of leaves on several plants now, but, I do have some growth that looks healthy and green on all plants, so hopefully, that will provide the nutrient exchange needed for good ripe fruit.

I'm starting fall plants this weekend since many of these seem unlikely to survive beyond another few weeks, without a remarkable turn around.

I'm thinking for plants growing in earthtainers, 3 stems maybe should be the max? I'm thick headed I guess, because I can't imagine removing everything not on 3 main stems, which is what that means, right?

One other growth regulation question, my in ground plants are crazily large already, probably also TTF related. They are making my Texas Tomato cages look like toys. I've got one plant that is 7 tall at least and has many stems, with others close behind. Should I top them, because if I don't, they will soon be drooping under their own weight and start to grow downward/sideways, etc. How do you manage such growth? Currently they are more more healthy than those in earthtainer, but, have less fruit set. I'm thinking I might better do some major pruning there or have disease get uncontrollable on the southside garden too. Thanks.

DM

[b54red]

I quit using Texas tomato cages long ago for that very reason. I could never figure out what to do once they went over the top. I also had terrible foliage diseases when the cages got so full of vines and leaves that air and sunlight could barely penetrate them. I then went to super tall stakes but that was a total nightmare unless the plant was kept to just one stem and even then it was a lot of tying and dealing with bending or breaking stakes. From there I went to a tall trellis with three horizontal bars which still left me with too much tying as my arthritis keeps getting worse every year. You've seen what I'm trying now with the drop lines and clips on basically the same trellis just without so many horizontal bars. The plants are now starting to get to the top of the trellis so now I've got to see if I can lower the plants by the drop line without too many disasters occurring. I will say that using the lines really keeps me on top of pruning so I am having less problems with plants getting too dense and I'm not as tempted to let a sucker or fork escape pruning.

Bill

[Dewayne mater]

Bill

When you say lower the the plants by the drop line, to you mean trying to turn the vines into growing downward?

I'm definitely concerned about disease as my TTCs are totally filled and plants are shooting out on all sides and the top. I've been trying to do interior pruning to see if I can open up the circulation and slow the disease onslaught. I have terrific growth, but, my fruit set is not nearly what it is in earthtainers, in spite of the plants being more than double in size. I wonder if this is too much nitrogen in the soil. I've only used TTF a couple of times on these vs. every 3 watering in the containers. May need to up that to see if I can get a little more fruit set before its all Hades all the time here. I did put out some granular phosphorous hoping to encourage more blooms about 4 weeks ago.

What was your experience with topping the plants? I think I'm going to have to do that soon, or these guys are going to meld into one giant bush of 6 different vines/types. That will be bad for disease, sunlight, etc.

DM

[Dewayne mater]

This week has been hot and extremely humid with disease pressure very high, so I did a second bleach spray treatment late one evening, followed by a daconil bath at 7 a.m. After 2 days, I'm losing some leaves, but, have hope that I'm not going to lose any plants completely. The defoliation by disease has been nerve wracking and several of the plants look awful, but alive.

After a long wait that only a tomato grower can understand, I've got beef steaks blushing!! (Already picked tons of Sun Gold and Black Cherry and a couple of Black and Brown Boar). It is a virtual dead heat between JD's Special C Tex and Solar Flare, with Big Beef one day behind. Blushing laggards are Cherokee Green, Indigo Apple, Terhune, Cowlicks, and Super Sioux. Probably forgetting some.

The next 3-4 weeks look to be a bumper crop of tomatoes with more fruit set than I've ever had. The primary difference for me is the use of Texas Tomato Food every 3rd refill of the earthtainers. JD's, Big Beef and BBB all have more than 25 fruit set, with the bottom ones being nice large tomatoes in clusters for 4-6, shrinking in size and numbers as you go up the plant.

I've got a long ways to go to catch up with the masterful growers on this site. But, looking back to where I came from, which was a few early girls that produced a couple of fruit before succumbing completely to disease and insects, I could not be more thankful for the continuing excellent advice, guidance, references and great ideas Tomatoville members have provided. I'm encouraged each year to keep honing the art of tomato growing and I hope you will all do the same. Good luck and happy harvest time to my N. Tx friends and everywhere else. I'll try to take some pics and post later.

Dewayne Mater

[rnewste]

Hey Dewayne,

You have been an inspiration to many of us who would have just pulled the plug - and took up Quilting as a hobby instead!

Hope you get some good production over the next several weeks.

Raybo

[Cheryl2017]

Great job Dewayne.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Dewayne mater

Bill

When you say lower the the plants by the drop line, to you mean trying to turn the vines into growing downward?

I'm definitely concerned about disease as my TTCs are totally filled and plants are shooting out on all sides and the top. I've been trying to do interior pruning to see if I can open up the circulation and slow the disease onslaught. I have terrific growth, but, my fruit set is not nearly what it is in earthtainers, in spite of the plants being more than double in size. I wonder if this is too much nitrogen in the soil. I've only used TTF a couple of times on these vs. every 3 watering in the containers. May need to up that to see if I can get a little more fruit set before its all Hades all the time here. I did put out some granular phosphorous hoping to encourage more blooms about 4 weeks ago.

What was your experience with topping the plants? I think I'm going to have to do that soon, or these guys are going to meld into one giant bush of 6 different vines/types. That will be bad for disease, sunlight, etc.

DM

I'm talking about just lowering the whole plant by the string and retying the string after letting out a couple of feet of it. I don't know how it will work on the multiple stem plants but I know it will work on the single stem plants without too much hassle.

I think your problem with lighter fruit set with your garden plants may be due to too many stems on the plants with too many growth tips. If you restrain some of that growth by removing stems and suckers you will force the plant to set a higher percentage of the blooms. I found this out years back when I let a Gary O' Sena plant get huge yet it only set two fruit despite hundreds of blooms. When it was 8 ft tall and about 12 ft wide I cut two whole wheelbarrows of foliage and stems off of it and within two weeks it had a great fruit set. Since then I have been limiting my plants to no more than 3 or 4 stems. This year I only have a few with 3 stems and the rest are only being allowed one or two stems.

Take one or two of those plants that are not setting fruit well enough and cut out everything but two or three stems. Every fork cut one and leave the one with the first bloom cluster. Water the plant heavily for a week or two and see what happens. And make sure to keep pruning the forks and suckers. Oh yeah, after you do that pruning make sure to give them a good dose of TTF along with the water.


Bill

[Dewayne mater]

Ray - you are far too kind. Thanks.

Bill - yes, that is exactly what is happening. The in ground plants (not shown) are huge and in spite of spreading them further out on planting, they are taking the available space and become one giant blob of tomatoes. I think Ill try out what you are suggesting and will report back. One such candidate is nearing 8 feet tall, and is bushing out at least 4 feet in every direction with tons of stems, blooms and maybe 5 tomatoes. It is a Cherokee Green and I did not expect it go grow like it has!

Pics - Upper left - Terhune and Super Sioux - least damaged by disease - lots of fruit set, but it is hard to see behind the leaves
Upper right - Solar Flare and Big Beef - 2nd least damaged
Lower Left - JD's Ctex and Black and Brown Boar - the naked truth. Most leaves defoliated, but JD's starting to Blush.
Lower Right - a nice cluster on JD's.

I know I need to remove the diseased leaves. Its an ongoing battle and too hot to do it now, but I'll get to it this evening. The plants definitely look sad, but, at least the produced early!

Dewayne Mater

[b54red]

Dewayne, I had to spray the bleach spray again this morning for gray mold and I'm seeing a little more Early Blight than I would like to see with weekly fungicide treatments. I also gave them a good dose of TTF for a boost after a spell of not really taking care of my plants due to illness. I'm like you I need to remove some more foliage but it is so hot. If I keep thinning the leaves on the ones with gray mold I'll soon have super open plants.

Glad to see you have some blushing fruit. I keep looking but so far none have shown up yet and I really hope they wait because the fruit is not large enough yet on most of them so if they ripen now I'll be disappointed in the size.

Keep up the good work and it is work this time of the year.

Bill