Tell me about your seeds

[ginger2778]

Originally Posted by gunrunner

I have grown tomatoes for many years but have never saved seeds. Was wondering, do you notice any loss of plant quality after growing saved seeds? Also, I just watched a vid on youtube where a guy took and tomato cut it in half and rubbed it on a paper towel to remove the seeds. Then he let the paper towel dry for several days then folded it up and put it in a plastic bag to save for next year. Is this a good method? Looks fairly easy to me, just wondered if it would produce a good plant this way?

Thanks
Mike

You will have some germinate, and the subsequent plants will not lose quality, but for better germination, and to clean the seeds of some diseases that might be on the seed coat, you should use fermentation. The gel around the seed will tend to inhibit germination, as it does inside the tomato. Even when dried.

[digsdirt]

do you notice any loss of plant quality after growing saved seeds?

No.

I just watched a vid on youtube where a guy took and tomato cut it in half and rubbed it on a paper towel to remove the seeds. Then he let the paper towel dry for several days then folded it up and put it in a plastic bag to save for next year. Is this a good method?

No.

Here is a good current discussion on all the how-to do it.

Dave

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...=ferment+seeds

[Starlight]

Here is how I do mine. The below directions are those from Horseshoe's method from off on of his web pages. I have always used it and never had a bit of problems.

One...
Tomato Seed Fermentation

Here we go….~!

(1) Pick the tomatoes you want to save seed from. (Note: only save seeds from open-pollinated/non-hybrid plants.) I prefer to use a jar that has a wide mouth, wide enough to get my whole hand inside because it’s easier to mush up the fruit and leaves less mess.

two
(2) Break the tomatoes in half (or quarters) in order to get your hand and fruit in the jar. Commence to squishin’! Squish all of it… skin, pulp, juice, seeds, etc.

Three
(3) See how the final squished tomatoes look in the jar? Some folks don’t bother adding any extra water to it. I prefer to add water mainly ‘cus I can judge the process more easily (‘tis just a personal preference). I add as much water as there is tomato mush. In other words, if the tomato mush fills the lower two inches of the jar, add enough water to bring it up to four inches.

Four
(4) After adding water (if you choose) cover. Here I used a piece of a plastic bag but you can use cheesecloth or other fabric. It is really not necessary to cover at all. However, by covering you keep the knats and flies from hovering around. (It also hides the bouquet of the fermentation process!)

Wednesday, July 27, 2005

Five
(5) Set your jar aside in a room temperature area (preferably outside). In a day or so (depending on the temperature) you’ll see mold growing on top. Leave it alone. Some folks will stir it up but I don’t see the need. This is an anerobic process and the mold growth on top allows the anerobic bacteria to enjoy their natural habitat.

Six
(6) After a few days (usually 3-5 days after you see the mold growth, again depending on the temperature), you can begin the final process. At this point add water, as much as you like without overflowing, and stir it up. Allow the jar to sit and all the good stuff will settle to the bottom (viable seeds) and the rest will float on top. (I don’t call the floaters “bad stuff”…it’s great to add to your compost or directly to your garden).

Seven
(7) At this point you can pour off the floaters, carefully keeping the viable seeds in the bottom of the jar. When the floaters are poured off, add more water, swish it around and again let the jar sit so the seeds sink to the bottom. (This part goes fast, a couple minutes if that long.)

(7a) Repeat the above. Your seeds will now be in clear water, all the “trash” removed, and you only have one step left to perform!

(8) I use a strainer for this part. Holding it over a sink (or outdoors) quickly flip the jar of water and seeds over the strainer…the seeds will be washed into the strainer

(8) I gently wipe the strainer, or tap it, to get any excess water off it, then flip it over a paper plate (or waxed paper) and the seeds will fall out. The seeds, being wet, will clump together so use your finger to help separate them. I do this from time to time as they dry otherwise the seeds, when fully dried, will clump together. NOTE: Never let them dry on paper towels, napkins or the like. The seeds will stick to it and you’ll spend the rest of your life pulling a gazillion seeds off the paper towels/napkins.


(10) Allow the seeds to dry in an airy place (protected from winds, birds, mice, etc). When fully dry store in paper envelopes (labeled) or in a glass jar. I prefer to do both…put them in coin envelopes and put those in a canning jar and store in the fridge. This will ensure a long storage life.

[carolyn137]

Is this the Horshoe you speakof? If yes, I know him as Shoe and he's been one of my best seed producers fo over 10 years.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/author/horseshoe

Carolyn

[seaeagle]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Is this the Horshoe you speakof? If yes, I know him as Shoe and he's been one of my best seed producers fo over 10 years.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/author/horseshoe

Carolyn

I don't know who Horseshoe is but one of his favorite tomatoes is Abraham Lincoln

"Another favorite tomato, 'Abraham Lincoln', dates back a bit further to 1923. An excellent slicer with wonderful disease tolerance. I hope to have it growing in my garden for as many years as I have taste buds (or have friends who do!). The meat to juice ratio is perfect! Slicing into it your eyes will witness a meaty fruit with just enough juice to transport its flavor to your tongue. From that point on you’ll discover a taste that is slightly acidic yet complemented with just enough sugar so as to not offend those of us with sensitive stomachs! An exceptional delight in the garden as well as on your plate! A friend of mine insists this tomato is “a little bit of heaven on a hot day”! By the way, “Abe” (like RCML mentioned above) produces fruit all summer long!"

Sounds like he has the original Abraham Lincoln and the picture of it sliced was beautiful and the plant was full of tomatoes.Probably why old Abe isn't more popular is because most people try the wrong version which seems to be sold at most seed companies.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by seaeagle

I don't know who Horseshoe is but one of his favorite tomatoes is Abraham Lincoln

"Another favorite tomato, 'Abraham Lincoln', dates back a bit further to 1923. An excellent slicer with wonderful disease tolerance. I hope to have it growing in my garden for as many years as I have taste buds (or have friends who do!). The meat to juice ratio is perfect! Slicing into it your eyes will witness a meaty fruit with just enough juice to transport its flavor to your tongue. From that point on you’ll discover a taste that is slightly acidic yet complemented with just enough sugar so as to not offend those of us with sensitive stomachs! An exceptional delight in the garden as well as on your plate! A friend of mine insists this tomato is “a little bit of heaven on a hot day”! By the way, “Abe” (like RCML mentioned above) produces fruit all summer long!"

Sounds like he has the original Abraham Lincoln and the picture of it sliced was beautiful and the plant was full of tomatoes.Probably why old Abe isn't more popular is because most people try the wrong version which seems to be sold at most seed companies.

First, Shoe does have a website, but what he sells off of that are tractor parts, etc. He also has a stand at his place in Efland, NC where he sells tomato seedlings and fruits. Gets most of his seeds from me.

He has written articles for Dave's Garden,

No, I don't think he has any original Abraham Lincoln, he doesn't sell seeds at all. If I remember, I can come back and give some history about Abraham Lincoln, etc.

Carolyn, just rushed today and for the next couple of weeks since she MUST watch the tennis from Wimbledon.

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Is this the Horshoe you speakof? If yes, I know him as Shoe and he's been one of my best seed producers fo over 10 years.

http://davesgarden.com/guides/author/horseshoe

Carolyn

Yep. The same Horseshoe. Great guy. I had copied and saved his method when he posted it, way.. way back then and have followed the steps ever since.

[digsdirt]

(Note: only save seeds from open-pollinated/non-hybrid plants.)

Would I be safe to try saving from BetterBoy?

Only if you wanted to do some experiment to see what would grow from those seeds next year. Better Boy is a hybrid so will not produce true from its own seeds. Seed saving is for non-hybrids (open pollinated) varieties as they will breed true. Open-pollinated varieties are sometimes referred to as "heirloom varieties".

Dave

[Salaam]

Originally Posted by gunrunner

I have grown tomatoes for many years but have never saved seeds. Was wondering, do you notice any loss of plant quality after growing saved seeds? Also, I just watched a vid on youtube where a guy took and tomato cut it in half and rubbed it on a paper towel to remove the seeds. Then he let the paper towel dry for several days then folded it up and put it in a plastic bag to save for next year. Is this a good method? Looks fairly easy to me, just wondered if it would produce a good plant this way?

Thanks
Mike

Given the original question, it's worth mentioning that historically, one of the goals of saving seeds, in addition to simply having seeds to plant for the next cycle, is to improve plant quality by saving the seeds from the best plants. So actually, if you save seeds, you'll end up with better plant quality, providing you save seeds from the "best" plants, and you're not too restrictive in your definition of "best" so as to lose variety.

[seaeagle]

Ok I think I will answer my own question here on how long to ferment tomato seeds.According to the 3 University research reports I read tomato seeds should be fermented for no longer than 3 days for best germination rates. One even said one or two days So it has been 3 days so now I rinse and get my wax paper ready

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by seaeagle

Ok I think I will answer my own question here on how long to ferment tomato seeds.According to the 3 University research reports I read tomato seeds should be fermented for no longer than 3 days for best germination rates. One even said one or two days So it has been 3 days so now I rinse and get my wax paper ready

We posted 3 min apart and I wrote a very long post for you,

That's pure ridiculousness to ferment no longer than 3 days, since the ambient temps and thickness of the gunk and all else I posted about in terms of variables do obtain.

You have no idea of any of the conditions they were using, none at all to say their conditions were what you read at those sites.''For instance, I livein zone 5 and always had to ferment mine for at least 5 days even longer when the temps dropped in the Fall.

While someone in S CA or the Gulf States or in FLwould have very different ambient temps, and again,few folks ever mention how important the thickness of the gunk is.

Summary?

You do what you think is best.

Carolyn

[seaeagle]

I guess I should post the links so you know I'm not making this up

I do think all assumed room temperature or above when fermenting

http://www.jsd-africa.com/Jsda/V10N4...tatioNTime.pdf

http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/a...bles/SEED.html

http://extension.oregonstate.edu/gar...eeds-next-year

http://www.lsuagcenter.com/en/our_of...mmer-Seeds.htm

http://www.southernexposure.com/savi...s-ezp-177.html

[seaeagle]

And just to be sure I checked with Farmer Fred.Here is a quote from Farmer Fred:

" Don't leave those seeds in the container for more than three days; they might germinate"

http://farmerfredrant.blogspot.com/2...ving-tips.html

[digsdirt]

If you are just fermenting your seeds to get the gel coating off them then 2-3 days may be sufficient depending on ambient air temps and air exposure. I've done it but found I had to scrub them a great deal more and they were still sticky.

But if the goal in fermenting your seeds is to disinfect them as well then longer time is needed and the minimum recommend time is 7 days to allow for sufficient bacteria to build up. Farmer Fred doesn't discuss disinfection. Neither does Aggie-Hort. or any of the other links posted above. They are all about gel removal. So depends on what your goal is but why waste the time doing it if you aren't going to allow sufficient time for disinfection? Especially if you will be trading seeds. Why would you want seeds that hadn't been disinfected too?

I suppose a case could be made for a short fermentation just to break down the gel coating - although even that isn't guaranteed with only 3 days - and then use one of the other methods of disinfection on them. But why over-complicate the process.

Dave

[seaeagle]

Originally Posted by digsdirt

If you are just fermenting your seeds to get the gel coating off them then 2-3 days may be sufficient depending on ambient air temps and air exposure. I've done it but found I had to scrub them a great deal more and they were still sticky.

But if the goal in fermenting your seeds is to disinfect them as well then longer time is needed and the minimum recommend time is 7 days to allow for sufficient bacteria to build up. Farmer Fred doesn't discuss disinfection. Neither does Aggie-Hort. or any of the other links posted above. They are all about gel removal. So depends on what your goal is but why waste the time doing it if you aren't going to allow sufficient time for disinfection? Especially if you will be trading seeds. Why would you want seeds that hadn't been disinfected too?

I suppose a case could be made for a short fermentation just to break down the gel coating - although even that isn't guaranteed with only 3 days - and then use one of the other methods of disinfection on them. But why over-complicate the process.

Dave

Journal of Sustainable Development in Africa research report concluded;

CONCLUSION
The study showed that tomato seeds can be fermented for up to three days without affecting seed
viability. Seeds fermented for one day had the highest
germination percentage, while those fermented
for four days had the lowest germination percentage. Farmers can use this technology as a way of
improving their retained seed quality since fermentation is known to break dormancy and kill seed-borne
pathogens.

I think when the term fermentation of tomato seeds is used it is implied that it kills seed-borne pathogens.

Even Southern Exposure Seed Exchange says ferment for 2 or 3 days and they are well respected seed company and I am confident they wouldn't cut the process short and pass on infected seed to their customers..

Not trying to rock the boat here , just trying to get helpful information out there: