Can someone help me with insecticide question-

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by KarenO

enjoy your poison tomatoes and your dead pollinators.

systemic insecticide in edible plants can go along with the golf course fungicides, also systemic and toxic, frequently used by uneducated growers or those concerned only with profit as well.
I am relieved most of the world sees things differently these days.
Regards,
KarenO

I read somewhere that imidicloprid was present in at least 70% of the fresh, frozen, and canned vegetables in the supermarket. I'm sure you're completely self-sufficient, Karen, and can avoid all pesticide residues?

[KarenO]

maybe so, but I am not the one who deliberately put it there.
while clearly not self sufficient, I and many others, an increasing number, make attempts to purchase locally where possible and from sources reliable in their attempts of at least working toward a more sustainable culture in food production.
That is where the future of agricultural business and local market growing lies here I believe and that is because that is what the increasingly aware and educated consumer wants.
KarenO

[Worth1]

I'm sure the good people of chemlab will come up with something worse and we wont know about it till years from now.
So far my spot treatment of mineral oil has worked wonders on aphids.

Worth

[MissS]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

I'm gonna go buy a couple of cases of it before it's banned! It just takes a miniscule amount to kill tater bugs, and aphids, so 2 cases would last me, then my kids the rest of their lives.

For your kids??? I don't think that is such a good idea. Why move to the country just to poison it all? Teach your children well. Take care of what we have been given.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by KarenO

maybe so, but I am not the one who deliberately put it there.
while clearly not self sufficient, I and many others, an increasing number, make attempts to purchase locally where possible and from sources reliable in their attempts of at least working toward a more sustainable culture in food production.
That is where the future of agricultural business and local market growing lies here I believe and that is because that is what the increasingly aware and educated consumer wants.
KarenO

I'm friends with a really intelligent, and educated French guy who moved to KY about 10 years ago. He worked all over the US breeding everything from paste tomatoes, to tobacco. He holds some such title in plant sciences that I don't remember, but he's one sharp cookie! He grows organic produce to supply some restaurants, and specialty market's in Lexington.

He grows organic lettuces, and asparagus because he said those two things are the only things he can grow organically and turn a profit.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by MissS

For your kids??? I don't think that is such a good idea. Why move to the country just to poison it all? Teach your children well. Take care of what we have been given.

I used to read about the organic way of life, it's not for me.

The books would talk about how chemical fertilizers were killing the soil and such. I say boloney! The healthiest earth around these parts are the old tobacco fields that had tons of fertilizer dumped on them for decades. When I said tons for decades that is not exaggerating any at all. An acre of tobacco got around a ton of P and K, and around 1000 lbs of N per season. That's not counting the pesticides that were applied constantly.

[MissS]

No I'm not saying that one needs to be organic. I use chemical fertilizers and some chemical pesticides as well. I am saying that one needs to be responsible. It is understood that the neonicotinoids have caused the decline in the bee, butterfly and hummingbird populations. This is the reason that they are being banned in the EU. Along with their use (human consumption) there has been a increase in the incidence of Autism, Turrets and other related conditions. Are these definitely the reason for the increase? I don't have the answer. But I would prefer to be as proactive as possible to promote the health and safety of my children, family and the place where we reside. I would hate to know that I was responsible for a miscarriage, disease or death of a loved one at the expense of having a few less bugs.

These products are being banned for a reason. If you wish to stay ignorant that is your own choice to make.

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

I used to read about the organic way of life, it's not for me.

The books would talk about how chemical fertilizers were killing the soil and such. I say boloney! The healthiest earth around these parts are the old tobacco fields that had tons of fertilizer dumped on them for decades. When I said tons for decades that is not exaggerating any at all. An acre of tobacco got around a ton of P and K, and around 1000 lbs of N per season. That's not counting the pesticides that were applied constantly.

I certainly don't go along with a lot of the organic theories. Almost everything used whether organic or not is made up of chemicals. I do agree that heavy use of chemical fertilizers will kill a lot of important organisms in the soil that help maintain that soil in a healthy state. When I first started gardening over 40 years ago in the same spot I am still growing in I followed the recommendations of the state agriculture school and the county agents. The result in less than five years was very sandy soil that became less and less productive. I did some research and started trying a lot of the organic methods and slowly but surely my soil returned to a healthy and productive state that I have been able to maintain. I still will use a small amount of chemical fertilizers when I need them but rarely do I need them with the addition of compost, cottonseed meal, greensand, and chicken manure along with soil builders like peat and pine bark fines. A good indicator or whether your soil is healthy is the amount of worms present. Mine is now like a worm bed in many places and they constantly make worm castings to help fertilize my plants. I do use a lot of Texas Tomato Food and their Vegetable formula but they are mostly natural with the exception of some elements that are necessary for plants that may not be totally organic but it works for my plants.

Down here going totally organic to control pests and diseases is a recipe for disastrous production most of the time due to the heavy disease pressure and the abundance of disease carrying bugs that start feeding on my plants; but I still try to use the least poisonous methods with the least lasting residual effects as much as possible.

Bill

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by MissS

No I'm not saying that one needs to be organic. I use chemical fertilizers and some chemical pesticides as well. I am saying that one needs to be responsible. It is understood that the neonicotinoids have caused the decline in the bee, butterfly and hummingbird populations. This is the reason that they are being banned in the EU. Along with their use (human consumption) there has been a increase in the incidence of Autism, Turrets and other related conditions. Are these definitely the reason for the increase? I don't have the answer. But I would prefer to be as proactive as possible to promote the health and safety of my children, family and the place where we reside. I would hate to know that I was responsible for a miscarriage, disease or death of a loved one at the expense of having a few less bugs.

These products are being banned for a reason. If you wish to stay ignorant that is your own choice to make.

I'm not ignorant on the use of pesticides at all. Quite the contrary! I'm an old feller who raised my family, and made the mortgage payment raising produce for a farmers market, and a produce auction. I did that for decades, and believe it or not, this farm is still like a virgin.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by b54red

I certainly don't go along with a lot of the organic theories. Almost everything used whether organic or not is made up of chemicals. I do agree that heavy use of chemical fertilizers will kill a lot of important organisms in the soil that help maintain that soil in a healthy state. When I first started gardening over 40 years ago in the same spot I am still growing in I followed the recommendations of the state agriculture school and the county agents. The result in less than five years was very sandy soil that became less and less productive. I did some research and started trying a lot of the organic methods and slowly but surely my soil returned to a healthy and productive state that I have been able to maintain. I still will use a small amount of chemical fertilizers when I need them but rarely do I need them with the addition of compost, cottonseed meal, greensand, and chicken manure along with soil builders like peat and pine bark fines. A good indicator or whether your soil is healthy is the amount of worms present. Mine is now like a worm bed in many places and they constantly make worm castings to help fertilize my plants. I do use a lot of Texas Tomato Food and their Vegetable formula but they are mostly natural with the exception of some elements that are necessary for plants that may not be totally organic but it works for my plants.

Down here going totally organic to control pests and diseases is a recipe for disastrous production most of the time due to the heavy disease pressure and the abundance of disease carrying bugs that start feeding on my plants; but I still try to use the least poisonous methods with the least lasting residual effects as much as possible.

Bill

That's it, Bill..

Knowing when to use the pesticide! I was never spray on schedule person, I only used a pesticide when needed. A lot of the farmers I know spray because they don't understand anything.

[brownrexx]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

I read somewhere that imidicloprid was present in at least 70% of the fresh, frozen, and canned vegetables in the supermarket.

If this is true then I certainly wouldn't want to add MORE poisons to the fresh produce that I grow at home.

[MissS]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

That's it, Bill..

Bill, you are a gem!

Just a little story that I would like to share with all of you. I not only have a passion for tomatoes, I garden for the hummingbirds too.
I am on a forum where we had a member who used imidicloprid to control his aphids and Japanese Beetles. He encouraged other members to use it too. He used it for years. He also had a very large colony of hummingbirds. I kept trying to convey the message that what he was doing was harming his birds. He did not believe it because he had so very many of them. One year many of us were discussing the antics of the baby birds that had just fledged the nest. This man and two of his friends said that they did not notice any of this. It became apparent to me that he did not have any baby hummingbirds in his area. I gently pointed this out to him. I told him that the use of imidicloprid would control the dreaded Japanese on his plants and it does. However, a baby hummingbird is the size of a jellybean. It is the same size as a Japanese Beetle. The female feeds her young the tainted nectar from the treated flowers. The babies perish. There is not enough poison to kill the parent, but it is fatal to the newly hatched offspring. A light bulb went on in this man's head. The following year he stopped using imidicloprid and he was posting about how much he was enjoying the antics of the young birds and preaching to others not to use these systemic chemicals.

So for whatever it is worth, I thought I would share...

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by brownrexx

If this is true then I certainly wouldn't want to add MORE poisons to the fresh produce that I grow at home.

My family is healthy, I got to spend quality time with them through the important years by never having a 9-5 job, and my dogs don't have flea's. Imidicloprid was a key player.

[brownrexx]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

My family is healthy, I got to spend quality time with them through the important years by never having a 9-5 job, and my dogs don't have flea's. Imidicloprid was a key player.

I am very happy for you. My 4 hives of honeybees all died this spring. Maybe one of my neighbors has no fleas or ticks in their yard either.

Your attitude of wanting to use banned insecticide to make your life easier and disbelief that it is dangerous makes me question buying produce at farmer's markets. It makes me wonder what products have been used on those vegetables. Obviously not everyone is as conscientious or careful with their use of pesticides as I would hope. I am sure that some sellers are very careful but how can we know which ones that they are when I hear things like this? I am more glad than ever that I grow most of my own vegetables.

Health effects of chemicals do not show up immediately but they are cumulative and show up many years, if not decades, later. I hope for your sake that your family's good health continues.

[Gerardo]

Originally Posted by JoParrott

Thanks, Gerardo-

Keep the questions coming, that's what the forum is for. Good MayDay to all.