Hybrid taste

[Jonathan_E]

For what it's worth, I agree with the favorable comments about Big Beef. While most of the tomatoes I grow are heirlooms, I almost always grow at least a plant or two of Big Beef. It has been very productive for me, more so than the other beefsteak hybrids I've tried (Big Bite, Burpee's Supersteak, Beefmaster), and I like the taste and firm texture just fine.

I am one of those who does not like Sun Gold, even though many others swear by it. One of my favorite cherry tomatoes is Sweet Quartz, although I haven't grown it in a couple of years and rarely hear about it. Like Sun Gold, it has a unique flavor, but one I like much better than Sun Gold.

[mayax68]

I have grown Sungold, Better Boy and Beeffmaster last year. I loved Sungold and Beefmaster. Beefmaster gave me a huge crop of very dark red big tomatoes. They tasted yammy. Sungold never stopped, it just pumped fruit until late October.

[Lee]

Another reason for the discussion weighted towards heirlooms/op varieties is
there are so many more of them out there compared to the realtively few
hybrids consitenty available on the market.
essentially, how many times can I show a picture or ask a question about Big Beef/Celebrity? This doesn't mean they aren't great varieties. It's just everything's already been asked/said before. (Also, this is not meant to generalize that one shouldn't ask questions. Definitely do! But once you've asked your questions about the hybrids, you will ask 10~100x more questions about heirloom since there are that many more to grow/try out.)

Sorry for the long winded reply, but I hope that no one is shy/reluctant to talk
about hybrids, because it seems most people are talking about heirlooms/ops....


Tomatovator, try Livingston's Stone. Very similar to Big Beef in shape, color, and productivity. Big Beef has a slightly better taste and is an order of magnitude more disease tolerant. I rate Stone a 7.5 and Big Beef an 8.

Greg, we need to get you down to Tomatopalooza[tm] some year. Last year we had both White Oxheart and Stick. White Oxheart was the best tasting white there, a solid 7 in my book. And Stick had always tasted quite good, even
for a "novelty" variety. A 7 to 7.5 on my taste scale.

Ah, but that's the fun of all of this! So many choices, so many preferences, there's something out there for everyone!

Lee

[montanamato]

Tyffanie....Most summers are scorchers here as well...For OP's have you tried Sioux, Sheyenne, Bonny Best, Victor, Dakota Gold, Costoluto Genovese, Mortgage Lifter, Red Zebra, Green Zebra, Mano, or Victoria ?
These all set pretty well in heat and, I mean 3 weeks of 100 or so they still trudge along...Mano is the only new one for me this year of those listed, but has set during the worst heat...The others have done better than most...I am going to try Arkansas Traveler next year, even if humidity isn't a factor here...
Honorable mention goes to Early Rouge and Dubok for heat setting too.
Monomakh's Hat was very early for me last year, but this year is slower...
Have the plague of grasshopers hit you yet ?
I lost an entire thelma sanders squash plant and 2 zucchini plants in a few hours yesterday...Today I have row covers over the cukes and a few favorite winter squash, but it looks grim...they also ate about 1/3 of the front lawn in the same time span, down to the dirt....The chickens are so sick of them they hardly notice them unless they land on them...

Jeanne

[greggf]

We prefer the consistency of taste, performance, and yield that tends to come more from hybrids than it does from OPs.

I think it's like an artist preferring to work with a limited palette, as opposed to those 80-color Crayola boxes that Bob Keeshan hawked on "Captain Kangaroo."

I wonder how much of our insatiablity when it comes to novelty in tastes, shapes, colors, sizes, and, in general, our rampant consumption, has to do with our exposure to advertising?

I'd rather love 6 varieties deeply than 150 fleetingly and shallowly..................

Only serious tomato varieties need apply!

=gregg=

[nctomatoman]

Gregg, interesting thought but I disagree on generalizing the advertising point. I think it is more about individual personality; I am all about trying different things (ice cream, coffee, ways to work, etc - and yes, tomatoes) - just because I LOVE variety and discovery of new things. I find the comfort of predictability much worse than happening upon something new I don't like (then again, that's just me). Also, I tend to be one of those that avoid at all costs anything that is advertised or the latest trend (in fact, we just discontinued our cable TV today, partly because of endless ads - and bad shows, of course).

[Tomatovator]

Gregg
I'm with you. I grow tomatoes for my family and several members probably only have a couple of years left. I need tomatoes that produce reliably and taste good to them. They have their favorites that happen to be hybrids. I'm growing more OP's this year than hybrids but based on the taste and texture of them I don't think I'll do it again.

[montanamato]

Interesting notes from Gregg and Tomatovator...I grow for production and hardiness first, taste second and I can't find a hybrid that stands up to my favorite OP's in my gardening conditions...Maybe I will try a few hybrids again, but I have never had such poor producers as Lemon Boy and Celebrity....Big Beef was average last year but 30 op's out produced it that tasted better....I do have seed for Dombito...Anyone have a good report on it ?

Jeanne

[PeteD]

My only hybrid this year is Sungold. Last year, I grew Sungold, Early Girl, Ball's Beefsteak, and Better Boy for hybrids. Better Boy was the best of the hybrid lot in terms of taste. Production for the hybrids was similar to my OP varieties, with some variability (i.e. I would not classify one type or the other as more productive across the board - it seems to be tomato specific).

Although Better Boy was the best tasting hybrid, it was in the lower portion of my taste rankings for the OP varieties.

The biggest gripe I have with non-cherry hybrids is texture. I thought the hybrids were mealy and generally too firm for my liking. This problem is especially evident to me during fresh eating. If you are cooking tomatoes, that is a whole different situation where a firmer texture can be beneficial.

In short, I may mix in some hybrids in the future, but I love the flavor and variety that come with OP tomatoes. Last year, I mixed in 40% hybrids because I was afraid of production issues and disease (I was somewhat skeptical of my ability to grow OP varieties). Now, I can't really see growing hybrids in the future because they are all very similar to in my experience (red, smooth skin, too firm, lacking somewhat in taste, with occasional exceptions).

Pete

[elkwc36]

I started with around 20 hybrids and 66 op's. I have lost no hybrids and 20 op's so far. My best producers the last few years with good taste has been Bonnies Original and Goliath. Jet Star, Porterhouse and Sungold are setting good so far. Mr Bruno, Wagner, Kimberly, Victoria, Red Boar, Trophy, Olomovic, Flamme' and Super Sioux are the leading op's. Will see how all continue and how they taste. I still use the hybrids as a guarantee while trying to find the op's that will do well here. I have added some Big Boys, Big Beefs and Better Boys late to fill in for those that I lost. Will see how they do. Haven't planted them in several years. Production and hardiness go hand in hand with taste with me. It don't matter how great the taste if you only get one or two fruits. Just my opinion. Jay

[carolyn137]

I started with around 20 hybrids and 66 op's. I have lost no hybrids and 20 op's so far.

******

Jay, noting where you live and what tomato diseases are prevalent there I'm curious to know what caused so many of your OP's to go down when your hybrids didn't. And especially so early in the season.

I'm also noting that no hybrid is resistant to anything, despite the alphabetical designations next to the name, rather, it's a matter of tolerance b'c infection is quantitative.

Also, neither OP's nor hybrids have significant degrees of tolerance to the most common tomato diseases which are the foliage diseases, with three exceptions that are of no use to the home gardener.

And yes, I think it was Feldon who said that I really liked Jet Star. it goes beyond that to the other still available Harris variety Supersonic, now that Moreton Hybrid is no longer being produced.

I think the Harris hybrids have some of the best tastes around and production and all else are great as well. And like it or not, but I still think there's nothing wrong with Big Boy and Better Boy. And no, it's not b'c each one has one parent that's an heirloom; actually they both have the same heirloom parent called Teddy Jones.

Ah, almost forgot Ramapo, no longer available as the hybrid, but the F2 and F3's that I sent out to a lot of folks are pretty much the same as the F1 hybrid and many folks are now at the F5 and it's still running true. Great variety re taste and production.

But there are number of OP's that I'd put up against those hybrids as well, starting with Break O Day, an old commercial OP.

[MargeH]

Originally Posted by spyfferoni

I know that their are a few OPs that handle the heat better than others, so I'll look into those as well. Next year my garden will probably be made up of mostly early varieties and heat tolerant ones.
Tyffanie

I battle heat and humidity and Eva Purple Ball was a tomato machine for me long after everything but Sungold had stopped setting.

[Tomatovator]

I just tasted a Mariannas Peace that was not mealy. It was the third off the plant. I also just tasted my first Polish (Ellis). These will have to come back every year.

[Fusion_power]

Lot of interesting thoughts in this thread. My 2cents is that hybrids are much more productive on average than heirlooms., but there are exceptions. Eva Purple Ball, Cherokee Purple, and Red brandywine will rival any hybrid for production. All three of these are affected by fusarium to some degree and I have lost plants in my garden this year.

The hybrids I grow are Carnival, Amelia, Big Beef, and Sungold. All three of these are very productive and have specific genetic tolerances to disease that affect my garden. Amelia is tolerant to Tomato Spotted Wilt. All 4 are tolerant to Fusarium but all 4 are susceptible to the various fungal diseases such as early blight and gray mold. I grow Carnival because it is a better flavored version of its sister variety Celebrity and it is determinate. Big Beef is a good flavored and very productive indeterminate suitable for home gardens. Amelia is a determinate TSWV tolerant variety with pretty good production and decent flavor. Sungold tells its own story.

What would I like to see done with our genetic resources? I would love to see Sungold crossed with Galina to get a sweeter Galina. If Amelia were crossed with Brandywine, we could get a much better flavored disease tolerant tomato.

Darrel Jones

[rnewste]

Hi Darrel,

The plants you sent my father are doing great!

As far as hybrids go, I would really suggest you try Dona and Carmello, which are French varieties that Gary Ibsen of Tomatofest highly recommends. I have grown them for the past 10 years along with many Heirlooms, and it gives my tomato garden a nice balance, and degree of certainty regarding having a prolific and balanced crop throughout the Summer.

Ray