Burpee does it again - UGH! - Page 3

creister · December 25, 2009

I think the only thing that can really make a difference is what many are doing, not buying anything from Burpee. That is the best statement any of us can make, and also, tell our friends, neighbors and enemies to boycott them as well. Money talks.

feraltomatoes · December 25, 2009

Just to let people know it is perfectly fine with me to sell and trade my varieties. Sorry if it sounded different. If you could give me breeding credit that is great as with open pollinated varieties that is all you may end up with which is fine.
I have sold to several people with the intentions of them reselling. And like selling any other product you should be able to mark it up and charge what you can or want.
I pondered the thought of selling my latest releases in very small amounts for big $ and it might even of made them more desirable but decided agianst it and priced them the same as other 30 seed packs.

Carol, very nice thought. Please slip the 15 cents in an envolope and mail right away

.lol
Actually if you have demand for more let me know and I will give you a special deal.

BTW, that tomato looks nothing like my Berkeley Tie-Dye or the discription they give it.

matertoo · December 26, 2009

Being a relative newbie with tomatos and Tomatoville, I had bought some Burpee's seeds and other products by Burpee. I will no longer buy their products. I will destroy by fire the seeds and other Burpee products that I have acquired.

Boycott Burpee!!

Happy Matering,

Paul

mjc · December 26, 2009

Here's the thing...since Brad did not go the PVP route the name isn't really protected in any way, other than by prior use, so in a sense, Burpee isn't ripping the name. Besides like Brad said, it looks nothing like his tomato.

Now the underhanded, uncouth practice of naming it to sponge off a popular variety...in the online world that would be akin to cyber-squatting and is one of the lowest practices around.

The simple fact is, that Burpee is like most of the 'big boys'...a respected company with a long history that's now just another 'seed retailer' instead of a seed company. It's like quality and service no longer matter...they have the name and reputation, so anything that is done is fine.

**carolyn137** · December 26, 2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by mjc

Here's the thing...since Brad did not go the PVP route the name isn't really protected in any way, other than by prior use, so in a sense, Burpee isn't ripping the name. Besides like Brad said, it looks nothing like his tomato.

Now the underhanded, uncouth practice of naming it to sponge off a popular variety...in the online world that would be akin to cyber-squatting and is one of the lowest practices around.

The simple fact is, that Burpee is like most of the 'big boys'...a respected company with a long history that's now just another 'seed retailer' instead of a seed company. It's like quality and service no longer matter...they have the name and reputation, so anything that is done is fine.

They used to be respected mj, especially during WWII when Victory Gardens were so popular, but through the years ownership changed many times. When George Ball bought the company he thought he could turn it around, he reluctantly offered a separate catalog of heirloom varieties, and don't get me going on that, he expanded the Burpee name by setting up new nurseries, retail, in several places and the result is that they had to claim bankruptcy, which I guess they're out of now.

I've talked with Goerge Ball in the past. While I admire his knowledge of Burpee past history and I did find out many things from him, such as John Peto leaving Burpee and taking the seeds for one parent of Big Boy F1, that's Teddy Jones, with him, moving to CA and setting up Petoseed, I have problems with his pro- hybrid, anti-OP position.

He believes that only hybrids will help solve the world hunger problem.

With passing years the number of varieties decreased and the space given to pictures increased.

I have a copy of the Burpee catalog from the 40's as well as a reproduction of one of their catalogs from the late 1800's and the number of listings was wonderful.

What we see today, although I don't as of several years ago when I stopped paying any attention whatsoever to Burpee, is a pale shadow of what the company once was.

In my heart of hearts I wish it wasn't that way b'c the name of Burpee will always be linked to home gardening, but what is, is.

Wi-sunflower · December 26, 2009

John Peto leaving Burpee setting up Petoseed,

Do you know aprox when that happened ??

I ask because I know Petoseeds existed already back when I was first getting started back in the late 70s. And even at that time if you weren't buying bulk seeds, you had to go thru their "home grower" catalog, Twilley's. Seems like too far back to have been much part of Burpee's current problems.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I used to be able to get a Burpee "commercial" catalog where I could buy bulk packs of thier seeds. I would get 1/4 to1 oz of a few varieties that I couldn't find elsewhere. Unfortunately several years ago they droped that part of their business. Now they ONLY offer "packs". Hard to offer 100+ plants of a Burpee variety at the farmers market if you have to buy in 15 seed packs.

There is also the fact that their "hybrids" aren't always true hybrids. I believe it was shown first with Sweet Million when it was grown out and there was no segregation at all. People don't like being ripped off with a fraud. Personally I've saved several Burpee so-called Hybrid varieties and grown them out, some to F-5+. Most grow just fine. It seems like if it's a variety that's been around for a while, it probably isn't a true hybrid any more but a stabilized version.

Just my opinions on this tho,
Carol

**carolyn137** · December 26, 2009

John Peto leaving Burpee setting up Petoseed,

Do you know aprox when that happened ??

I ask because I know Petoseeds existed already back when I was first getting started back in the late 70s. And even at that time if you weren't buying bulk seeds, you had to go thru their "home grower" catalog, Twilley's. Seems like too far back to have been much part of Burpee's current problems.

****

Carol, John Peto leaving was decades ago and has nothing to do with their current problems.

They used to have a vigorous breeding program and he was part of that program. I'm too lazy to go confirm when Big Boy F1 and Better Boy F1 were introduced, but the timing went something like this.

Big Boy F1 was bred by Dr. Oved Schifriss and released I think in the late 40's, maybe 1948 or so. Better Boy was bred by Peto AFTER he was in CA using the same Teddy Jones he took with him when he left Burpee that was used for Big Boy F1 when he bred Better Boy F1 in CA and I think the latter was released in maybe the early 50's.

So Peto went to CA sometime in the late 40's, maybe very early 50's, where he formed Petoseed.

Wi-sunflower · December 26, 2009

Brad,

Glad to see you can now chuckle a bit about it. I know when something happens to me I'm often furious about it at first. Later it doesn't seem so bad. Tho Burpee "claim jumping" the Tie Dye name is still awful in my opinion. It's like they don't have any imagination to come up with something that is "their's".

Maybe what I sell this year will let you get a bottle of that nice Napa wine. Probably not a pricey bottle, but who knows. I have about 2 oz of each of the varieties I grew and saved this year so I think I will have plenty for now.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Carolyn,

That time line makes more sense now.

I'm not much of a Petoseed fan either. They were one of the first catalogs to have a $100 minimum order from their commercial catalog and then stopped even selling directly to growers.

They also had a hybrid Boc Choy that grew absolutely great for me from early spring right threw to late fall. Rarely bolted except in the hottest of weather. It was discontinued, with no notice I ever saw, over 10 years ago and I haven't found a Boc Choy that grows well for me since. If I'm lucky I will maybe get about 50% decent stalks from the best of what's out there now. That was part of why I don't sell to the Chinese restaurants any more. That was my best product while I had it. No Boc Choy on the market today comes close to "What-a-Joy" did in it's day.

Carol

tjg911 · December 26, 2009

with so many excellent seed companies like pinetree seeds, tomato growers supply, sandhill, johnny's, fedco why would anyone bother buying from burpee?

i never looked at the catalog, which they send to me religiously tho i never bought anything from them, and tossed it into the wastebasket.

beeman · December 26, 2009

I am not sure about Tomato Growers supply!
I bought from them last year, bc of a great many problems I bought what was supposed to be F1. Not one of the individuals was the same as it's sister.

tjg911 · December 26, 2009

well beeman i can only comment about my experience with tgs. i have bought tomato seeds from them over many years and i have never had any problems. i do think tgs is a very good source but again that's my opinion.

tom

**carolyn137** · December 26, 2009

I'm not much of a Petoseed fan either

****

Carol, if by that comment you assumed I wasn't positive about Petoseed you'd be wrong.

Over the years they've bred some great varieties, both OP and hybrid. But what I respect them for most is their world class laboratories that deal with tomato diseases. Most of the pictures you see at various websites, such as TAMU are from that lab and the book they also published, which I have.

I can't speak to minimum order requirements as you have.

I'm sorry they lost their independent ID when Seminis bought out the whole collection of seed companies, I've posted the history of Seminis here before, and I'm not as concerned as many others about Monsanto buying out Seminis either. But please, this is NOT the thread to discuss Monsanto, thank you very much.

Wi-sunflower · December 26, 2009

Carolyn,

No, I meant that besides Burpee, I'm not much of a Petoseed fan because of the things mentioned above.

But almost ALL of the big commercial seed companies won't sell directly to a Joe Blow farmer like me any more. Maybe they still sell to the giant mega farms, but not someone like me. We have to go thru their Distributor catalog companies.

And almost all of them drop varieties without warning too. So I guess I shouldn't single out Petoseed.

That's why we all like SSE (public and membership) and others that keep those older varieties that may not be commercially profitable any more.

Carol

Wi-sunflower · December 26, 2009

I just realized I goofed up above too. Twilley is related to Abott & Cobb, not Petoseed. It was A&C that had the Bok Choy I liked.

But I think A&C, along with Asgrow and Petoseed, was part of that buy-up you mentioned. I know it was 3 of the big seed companies, just not sure which 3 right now.

Carol

AZRuss · December 26, 2009

I'm one of those who really likes Brandy Boy. I have already sown the last five of my F1 seed. Can't say I'll be ordering any more, but understand Brandy Boy is good to F5 or F6, so I'll save some seeds this year and find a replacement (sorry, Brandywines just don't do well here). Burpee Tie Dye is just too much to take. So shady.

December 25, 2009	#32
feraltomatoes Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Home=Napa Valley/ Garden=Solano County Posts: 245	Just to let people know it is perfectly fine with me to sell and trade my varieties. Sorry if it sounded different. If you could give me breeding credit that is great as with open pollinated varieties that is all you may end up with which is fine. I have sold to several people with the intentions of them reselling. And like selling any other product you should be able to mark it up and charge what you can or want. I pondered the thought of selling my latest releases in very small amounts for big $ and it might even of made them more desirable but decided agianst it and priced them the same as other 30 seed packs. Carol, very nice thought. Please slip the 15 cents in an envolope and mail right away .lol Actually if you have demand for more let me know and I will give you a special deal. BTW, that tomato looks nothing like my Berkeley Tie-Dye or the discription they give it. __________________ Brad Gates-Wild Boar Farms ______________________________

December 26, 2009	#37
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	John Peto leaving Burpee setting up Petoseed, Do you know aprox when that happened ?? I ask because I know Petoseeds existed already back when I was first getting started back in the late 70s. And even at that time if you weren't buying bulk seeds, you had to go thru their "home grower" catalog, Twilley's. Seems like too far back to have been much part of Burpee's current problems. **** Carol, John Peto leaving was decades ago and has nothing to do with their current problems. They used to have a vigorous breeding program and he was part of that program. I'm too lazy to go confirm when Big Boy F1 and Better Boy F1 were introduced, but the timing went something like this. Big Boy F1 was bred by Dr. Oved Schifriss and released I think in the late 40's, maybe 1948 or so. Better Boy was bred by Peto AFTER he was in CA using the same Teddy Jones he took with him when he left Burpee that was used for Big Boy F1 when he bred Better Boy F1 in CA and I think the latter was released in maybe the early 50's. So Peto went to CA sometime in the late 40's, maybe very early 50's, where he formed Petoseed. __________________ Carolyn

December 26, 2009	#42
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	I'm not much of a Petoseed fan either **** Carol, if by that comment you assumed I wasn't positive about Petoseed you'd be wrong. Over the years they've bred some great varieties, both OP and hybrid. But what I respect them for most is their world class laboratories that deal with tomato diseases. Most of the pictures you see at various websites, such as TAMU are from that lab and the book they also published, which I have. I can't speak to minimum order requirements as you have. I'm sorry they lost their independent ID when Seminis bought out the whole collection of seed companies, I've posted the history of Seminis here before, and I'm not as concerned as many others about Monsanto buying out Seminis either. But please, this is NOT the thread to discuss Monsanto, thank you very much. __________________ Carolyn

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December 25, 2009	#31
creister Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Abilene, TX zone 7 Posts: 1,478	I think the only thing that can really make a difference is what many are doing, not buying anything from Burpee. That is the best statement any of us can make, and also, tell our friends, neighbors and enemies to boycott them as well. Money talks.

December 26, 2009	#33
matertoo Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: LA (Lower Alabama) Posts: 354	Being a relative newbie with tomatos and Tomatoville, I had bought some Burpee's seeds and other products by Burpee. I will no longer buy their products. I will destroy by fire the seeds and other Burpee products that I have acquired. *Boycott Burpee!!* Happy Matering, Paul

December 26, 2009	#34
mjc Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: WV Posts: 603	Here's the thing...since Brad did not go the PVP route the name isn't really protected in any way, other than by prior use, so in a sense, Burpee isn't ripping the name. Besides like Brad said, it looks nothing like his tomato. Now the underhanded, uncouth practice of naming it to sponge off a popular variety...in the online world that would be akin to cyber-squatting and is one of the lowest practices around. The simple fact is, that Burpee is like most of the 'big boys'...a respected company with a long history that's now just another 'seed retailer' instead of a seed company. It's like quality and service no longer matter...they have the name and reputation, so anything that is done is fine.

December 26, 2009	#36
Wi-sunflower Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Wisconsin Posts: 2,591	John Peto leaving Burpee setting up Petoseed, Do you know aprox when that happened ?? I ask because I know Petoseeds existed already back when I was first getting started back in the late 70s. And even at that time if you weren't buying bulk seeds, you had to go thru their "home grower" catalog, Twilley's. Seems like too far back to have been much part of Burpee's current problems. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I used to be able to get a Burpee "commercial" catalog where I could buy bulk packs of thier seeds. I would get 1/4 to1 oz of a few varieties that I couldn't find elsewhere. Unfortunately several years ago they droped that part of their business. Now they ONLY offer "packs". Hard to offer 100+ plants of a Burpee variety at the farmers market if you have to buy in 15 seed packs. There is also the fact that their "hybrids" aren't always true hybrids. I believe it was shown first with Sweet Million when it was grown out and there was no segregation at all. People don't like being ripped off with a fraud. Personally I've saved several Burpee so-called Hybrid varieties and grown them out, some to F-5+. Most grow just fine. It seems like if it's a variety that's been around for a while, it probably isn't a true hybrid any more but a stabilized version. Just my opinions on this tho, Carol

December 26, 2009	#39
tjg911 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: zone 5b northwest connecticut Posts: 2,570	with so many excellent seed companies like pinetree seeds, tomato growers supply, sandhill, johnny's, fedco why would anyone bother buying from burpee? i never looked at the catalog, which they send to me religiously tho i never bought anything from them, and tossed it into the wastebasket.

December 26, 2009	#40
beeman Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 692	I am not sure about Tomato Growers supply! I bought from them last year, bc of a great many problems I bought what was supposed to be F1. Not one of the individuals was the same as it's sister.

December 26, 2009	#45
AZRuss Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 171	I'm one of those who really likes Brandy Boy. I have already sown the last five of my F1 seed. Can't say I'll be ordering any more, but understand Brandy Boy is good to F5 or F6, so I'll save some seeds this year and find a replacement (sorry, Brandywines just don't do well here). Burpee Tie Dye is just too much to take. So shady.