best surprises of the season?

[b54red]

Originally Posted by Timmah!

You wouldn't happen to have a few extra of them there seeds for a certain someone to try & grow out next season, would you?

I saved a bunch of seed hoping that they will be stable and will gladly send you some. Just PM me your address and I'll get them out before too long.

[Cornflower]

My best surprise is that I could grow heirlooms at all--my previous attempts have been unsuccessful. (Brandywine? Nothing but heartache!) But I have some vines that are quite loaded with tomatoes, and even though I won't get my main harvest before Labor Day I'm still happy.

Sadly, I've lost my diagram on what I planted where, so I'm figuring out where things are by seeing what they ripen into. The Black Cherry, Cherokee Purple have made themselves known by ripening, and I'm pretty sure by fruit shape I know where the two Polish Pastel's got too. I think I found the Sioux, but I need to double check my notes to make sure I didn't plant anything else like it.

I'm worried about the Aunt Ruby's German Green, because, well, how will I know? I'm going to start fondling all the fruits after Labor Day, to see if any of them feel ripe. I'm hoping I don't freak out the neighbors.

[Marko]

Milka's Red Bulgarian - very vigorous and healthy plant with incredible yield of huge tasty tomatoes. More than 30 lb on one plant.
Other honorable mentions taste and production wise were Chapman, KBX, NAR, Kosovo, Ashleigh and Cowlick's.

[TZ-OH6]

Good surprises...
Superior flavor of Goose Creek and Soldacki
Unexpectedly good flavor of New Big Dwarf

Bad surprises...
Off type (unstable, mixed or crossed seed) for Brads Black Heart, Grubs Mystery Green, Isis Candy, Galon de Melon.

Just plain surprise.
Size of Costoluto Genovese... I thought it would be a bigger tomato

[punky]

Absinthe. I got the seeds from wintersown.org, and it's the first green when ripe I've ever tried. We've been blown away by the taste.

[nutmeg]

The biggest surprise has been how good 2010 has been for growing tomatoes compared to 2009!

This year, I grew SunSugar, Cherokee Purple, Noir De Crimee, Pruden's Purple, Azoychka, KBX, and Box Car Willie.

New this year was Azoychka, Noir De Crimee and Pruden's Purple.

SunSugar has been prolific and sweet as always and Cherokee Purple makes the best BLT's. Azoychka is a beautiful bright yellow tomato, with a great flavor and excellent production.

Noir De Crimee produced a lot of tomatoes, but they were best used in making fresh tomato sauce. Compared to the Cherokee Purple, the taste just wasn't as good.

Pruden's Purple and KBX were also excellent for flavor, but not that productive.

Box Car Willie was the only real disappointment, it produced a few red tomatoes that were just OK in flavor and they were the first plants to get foliage problems.

May 2011 be as good!

PJ

[velikipop]

Lambert's General Grant, German Queen and Hillbilly are outstanding this year.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Marko

Milka's Red Bulgarian - very vigorous and healthy plant with incredible yield of huge tasty tomatoes. More than 30 lb on one plant.
Other honorable mentions taste and production wise were Chapman, KBX, NAR, Kosovo, Ashleigh and Cowlick's.

Marko, am I ever glad to see you mention Milka's Red Bulgarian b'c I happen to think it's been overlooked as a terrific large red beefsteak.

There's also a Kroska Pink Bulgarian but I don't think it's anywhere's near the Milka one, and not a beeifsteak either.

I was sent seeds for both by Dr. D Kroska and he got the seeds from a patient of his named Milka, who had brought the seeds from Bulgaria to the US.

And I've grown and think highly of all the Honorable mention ones you name, except I haven't grown Cowlick's Brandywine.

How I wish that I could post in this thread about my surprise varieties but as it is I have no surprises b'c I have no tomatoes, but hope springs eternal I'll get something from my new ones before first killing frost, which is only a few weeks away, a bit more with luck.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by velikipop

Lambert's General Grant, German Queen and Hillbilly are outstanding this year.

Alex, I don't know about that General Grant one actually being General Grant.

It was called Lambert's General Grant b'c WWW found plants in an area of PA where it used to be known to be grown. What he found had no name and he named it and I asked him about documentation for him to name it GEneral Grant and he had none. Being a large pink RL unnamed pink variety I don't think is sufficient to name a variety.

I haven't interacted with WWW in many years and this business with General Grant took place way back in the mid-90's when we were still communicating.

lambert's General Grant has been considered extinct for decades.

But it's not the first time that WWW has revived a variety known to be extinct and Red Fig is one which he IDED from an old herbal picture and has long been extinct and is probably just a long necked Red Pear, and Shah, aka White Mikado, he also revived and probably did so by using White Potato Leaf, a known variety.

Check out the thread in the Legacy Forum about Shah.

Checking Tania's site I see that one place in Canada is offering seeds and I doubt that anyone else knows what I do about WWW and the variety General Grant. But should I contact them, should I let it stand, I don't know what to do but I don't like to see varieties offered that aren't what they're reputed to be.

[velikipop]

Carolyn,

From previous correspondence about this variety with you I was aware that it might be extinct. I contacted the vendor asking about the source and suggested that it might be extinct. She assured me that she received the seed from the USDA seed bank. That, of course, might not mean that it is the original, whatever that might be. However, what I have now seems to fit the description and is one of the best beefstakes for taste and production this year.

Alex

[Tania]

Carolyn, Alex,

This is what I found in 1998 SSE Yearbook - a Dr. Neal description by Chuck Wyatt:

Dr. Neal: MD WY C - HAS - 85 days, large, typical 6-8
oz. red with very good flavor, good producer, from OK
ME D 87, originally introduced in 1869 as Lambert's
General Grant according to William Woys Weaver,
Roughshod Seed Collection, ...

We know that Dr. Neal is a pink beefsteak, so red in the above description may be an error.

Interesting, isn't it?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tania

Carolyn, Alex,

This is what I found in 1998 SSE Yearbook - a Dr. Neal description by Chuck Wyatt:

Dr. Neal: MD WY C - HAS - 85 days, large, typical 6-8
oz. red with very good flavor, good producer, from OK
ME D 87, originally introduced in 1869 as Lambert's
General Grant according to William Woys Weaver,
Roughshod Seed Collection, ...

We know that Dr. Neal is a pink beefsteak, so red in the above description may be an error.

Interesting, isn't it?

It is, especially since I just checked my book and I mentioned Bill Ellis as well as Will Weaver ( my seed source) for Dr. Neal and neither one mentioned anything about the variety Dr. Neal being Lambert's General Grant.

But it has triggered a memory here and that's that when Bill found what's called Dr. Neal in Dubois, PA, knowing General Grant was grown in that area Weaver went there, found some unnamed pink fruited plants and dubbed them Lambert's General Grant, with no documantation at all. This was correspondence between the two of us only. He was delighted to find General Grant and I was dubious.

I also did a quick entry USDA GRIN search and got no results for either General Grant or Lambert's General Grant ( active or inactive), but I'd be pleased if someone could send me the link to the specific tomato listings b'c I'll be darned if I could find it. Or else take a look and report back here b/c I'm not sure my general entry variety request covered everything.

Tania, I've seen several entries in the yearbooks from someone in GA who lists Lambert's General Grant, but says little and sources seeds to ENSC Eastern Native Seed Conservancy), which is the now defunct former website of Lawrence who listed several varieties that Will sent him. You do the online, I don't, so perhaps there was an earlier listing by WWW for it.

Finally, Chuck wasn't a list SSE member until 1994 or 1995 and Bill Ellis had first listed what he called Dr. Neal's in 1993 and OK ME DE wasn't a listed member until much later so it's hard to see Chuck getting Dr. Neal from Darrell Merrell in 1987. Chuck was not a well man for several years before he died in June of 2002 and there were many errors in his SSe listings as well as with the seeds he listed at his website. He was a good friend. And requested all the varieties in my book that he didn't have and it wouldn't surprise me if I was his source of Dr. Neal, not Darell.

And notice that Chuck said Roughshod instead of Roughwood per what you copied above from his entry. I had to laugh not knowing if that was a goof or Chuck's sense of humor showing through.

As it is, it's hot in here and I'm going back out to the front room to watch some tennis from the US Open.

[PNW_D]

Appears original was crimson . . .Gardener's monthly and horticultural advertiser, Volume 11‎ - Page 395

Gardening - 1869

http://books.google.ca/books?client=...l+grant+tomato

GENERAL GRANT.

WE take great pleasure in announcing to the public that we have secured the entire stock of this justly celebrated Tomato. It originated in the garden of an Amateur, who, after growing it for a number of years in connection with all the leading sorts, became convinced that it was far superior to any other, and that it should bo widely disseminated ; and for this purpose it was put into our hands. In consideration of the many disappointments experienced in the introduction of new varieties, we have given it a thorough trial of two years ; and it has far exceeded our expectations, ever attract.ug great attention wherever exhibited, taking the first prize above all others at the Massachusetts Horticultural Society's Exhibitions the past two years. We feel the fullest confidence that too much cannot be said in its praise. We believe it the nearest approach to perfection of any thing of the kind yet offered, combining more superior qualities.
Size about the medium, three to four inches in diameter, growing in clusters; form round, slightly flattened, very regular, symmetrical and rarely ribbed or wrinkled; color brilliant glossy crimson ; flesh unusually firm, solid, and free from water, weighing from ten to twenty pounds more per bushel than other varieties ; skin remarkrbly fine, smooth and shining, coloring well up to the stem,—a quality very desirable to those preparing them for the table; very productive, and of the finest flavor; bears carriage well, and keeps in good condition a long time after being gathered, retaining its goodness, and free from wilting. It will be found to ripen uniformly, and as early as, if not earlier than other varieties-. Our whole stock of seed has been grown for us by Mr. C. N. Brackett, Chairman of the Vegetable Committee of the Massachusetts Horticultural Society, and saved only from the most perfect fruit; and we are warranted in saying that it cannot fail to give atisfaction in every instance.
We offer the following testimonials from practical parties,—gentlemen whose judgment in such matters is fully reliable. For further testimonials and descriptions, see Amateur Cultivator's Guide.

[Idahowoman]

One of my best surprises was one I just tried.It was Sunray . I thought it would be bland but it has a hint of sweet which I like and tangy which my husband likes.I purchased the seed from Victory Seeds

[carolyn137]

Thanks D, for your sleuthing.

I saw some of those links when I was Googling but didn't take the time to pursue them right now.

So, I know Dr. Neal is Pink, b'c Bill Ellis said so in his listing for it in his initial listing for it in the SSE YEarbook and he said he found it in a greenhouse in Dubois, PA. It grew pink for me as well, see the picture in my book or elsewhere.

So Dr. Neal is not General Grant b'c GG is red.

And what's been listed in the SSE Yearbook lately as LGG is also pink , seeds from ENSC, where I'm sure Lawrence got his seeds from WWW. And D's source says it should be 3-4 inches in diameter, oblate and rarely ribbed.

Tania lists LGG as pink as does Heritage Harvest and according to what D posted above it was an "amateur" who grew it and no name or specific site was mentioned other than MA.

What D posted says it originated in Massachusetts and was first offered by Washburn and CO in Boston and yes, first offered in 1869 by them.

As Tania said at her site, the variety is thought to be extinct and, my words now b/c I can't rememberher exact words, what's out there as LGG now is suspect. And with D's information I think I'd go a bit farther than that.

The only out I see is that over time there was an epidermis mutation changing the red to pink, which can happen, but in this specific situation there are too many dots that can't be connected as I see it.

D, thanks again for the clarification.

And now back to tennis watching.