What would be too much

[RebelRidin]

This, IMHO, is a pretty good page on adjusting soil pH.

http://www.grow-it-organically.com/c...g-soil-ph.html

From thier table for a LOAM soil, to adjust soil from pH 7.5 to 6.5 to a depth of 6 inches with sulphur (that is what the Espoma product has in it) you need 2.4 lbs of elemental sulphur per 100 square feet. Now you don't actually have pH 7.5 but you are close. You also don't need to get down to 6.5 exactly either. You also don't want to try and adjust soil pH all at once. It can get a person into trouble.

If I wanted to adjust the pH of my LOAM soil with sulphur, I would knock that 2.4 lbs back to 2 lbs and spread it out over at least two applications 8 weeks apart. So here is what I would do with that Espoma 30% product.


2 lb sulphur/0.3 lbs sulphur/lb product= 6.67 lb product per 100 square feet.

6.67 lb product per 100 square feet / 2 applications = 3.3 lbs product per 100 square feet of bed for each of two applications

I broadcast it evenly and work it into the top 6 to 8 inches of soil. Then this fall I will get another soil test.

If I have a SANDY soil in that same state I use only two-thirds as much = 0.66 * 3.3 lbs = 2.2 lbs product per 100 square feet of bed for each of two applications

If I have a CLAY soil I use half-again as much = 1.5 * 3.3 lbs = 5 lbs product per 100 square feet of bed for each of two applications


Again, only you can decide what you want to do. Before you do that I recommend a good read of that above link or one of the many articles on the subject that can be found at many university ag extension sites.

Good luck

PS: I am doing this very thing to my beds this year as the soil mix I filled them with tested at pH 7.3. I believe the 1/3 mushroom compost in the mix was what caused the higher pH in my case.

[RayR]

Originally Posted by nnjjohn

okay you guys suggest I go get my money back and try a 5 percent to water ratio.. worth , you saying like a cup of white vinigar to a gallon water and sprinkle it all around my plants existing and also the two empty beds i'm going to plant this week ? we have spotty thunder showers this pm.. the beds are kinda wet enough to do this now.. think i'll try this method you two proposed..thanks.for sharing

Espoma Soil Acidifier is made up of Elemental Sulfur and Gypsum. The Sulfur is a long term treatment to lower the PH. It takes time for it to act since it takes soil bacteria to oxidize the sulfur. You'll need to reapply it as they say until you reach your target PH.
Vinegar is a short term treatment. it won't last, it's just a quick fix.

[nnjjohn]

okay, so how about I try the white vinegar 5% to water and sprinkle a few gallons on these 100sqft beds first and wait to use this espoma stuff? If in the coming weeks the plants are looking like they are slow going, I can test with a home soil kit as I'm planning to do before sprinkling with 5%WVW? I can always add but can't take it out so I know this will be a slow watch and see thing. think this is best, afterall. , it is high ph but not over7.5 .. my test result is 7.39 pk is high they didn't show N in the test for whatever reason but, i'm sure i have plenty of organic matter.. coffee granules etc. and I did tiller in some peat moss this early spring.. so this should help as the season grows along. ty all,, john

[nnjjohn]

thanks everybody,rebelriden, great link , thanks.. i think I will be careful and very slow trying to lower this ph... as I do know now that PH will drop during the warmer summer. I'm aware at least and have a direction as to what to test and keep an eye on now.

[nnjjohn]

okay, turn the soil with a spade in two beds after watering them with a couple gallons 5% white vinegar and water solution and than sprinkled about three cups between the two beds which are about 10o sq ft each and raking in the Epsome soil acidifier. I will wait a few days before planting.. I understand it will take weeks but at least I feel like I did something different to lower the ph of 7.4 Maybe tomorrow i'll put a blow torch to the soil and get those microbes cooking

[RebelRidin]

Originally Posted by nnjjohn

okay, turn the soil with a spade in two beds after watering them with a couple gallons 5% white vinegar and water solution and than sprinkled about three cups between the two beds which are about 10o sq ft each and raking in the Epsome soil acidifier. I will wait a few days before planting.. I understand it will take weeks but at least I feel like I did something different to lower the ph of 7.4 Maybe tomorrow i'll put a blow torch to the soil and get those microbes cooking

I have no experience with the vinegar but that seems about right for an initial aplication of the Espoma 30% sulpher...

[nnjjohn]

yes, I turned the beds using a spade shovel (at least eight inches.. it is a rich sand loam with many garden worms in each shovel I flipped over.. it was a work -out,, could of used my tiller but was thinking about killing all the worms.. So after that, I sprinkled that sulfur along with the vinegar it should help lower the high PH I was having a problem with last few seasons.This will be interesting to see how my plants grow. The test recommended I use this sulfur and not to add any limestone , wood ash or compost.. most the metals are above optimum and a few are adequate so, I'm not going to add anything and just plant , hope the PH and what is in the beds do good for my matoes. I'll be gardening

[nnjjohn]

yes, I turned the beds using a spade shovel (at least eight inches.. it is a rich sand loam with many garden worms in each shovel I flipped over.. it was a work -out,, could of used my tiller but was thinking about killing all the worms.. So after that, I sprinkled that sulfur along with the vinegar it should help lower the high PH I was having a problem with last few seasons.This will be interesting to see how my plants grow. The test recommended I use this sulfur and not to add any limestone , wood ash or compost.. most the metals are above optimum and a few are adequate so, I'm not going to add anything and just plant , hope the PH and what is in the beds do good for my matoes. I'll be gardening

[Tracydr]

I add sulphur a couple times of year to my in-ground beds on the side of my house. I add it to my raised beds when I till.
I also use gypsum, which has sulphur.
I have a big bag of sulphur dust and I was wondering if I can use this just like the soil sulphur?
I don't know what my pH is running in my gardens anymore but I get a lot less chloriosis than I used to.

[RebelRidin]

Originally Posted by Tracydr

I add sulphur a couple times of year to my in-ground beds on the side of my house. I add it to my raised beds when I till.
I also use gypsum, which has sulphur.
I have a big bag of sulphur dust and I was wondering if I can use this just like the soil sulphur?
I don't know what my pH is running in my gardens anymore but I get a lot less chloriosis than I used to.

Tracy - Elemental sulphur is all the same no matter the form (powder, pellet). So long as your can distribute it evenly enough and at the proper rate the result should be the same. I should note though tha this is my reasoning, not first hand experience with the dust...

[Got Worms?]

Hi John, glad to see you're getting things under control.
I just thought I'd poke my nose in here to give you a little tip about P.H. management. First let me say that I am confident that, with the help you are getting here, you should have a pretty nice garden in no time.

RebelRidin, nice link, and excellent advice. Waiting until fall for the second application is the best plan. Another PH test at that time will confirm the amount of sulfur to be added, if any.

Since PH is constantly changing (towards it's norm for the area; mine being a native 5.5 here in NY) and knowing that a 6.5 is an optimum PH to keep most nutrients from becoming locked up, ...plus having a garden soil PH of 6.83, I will do nothing this year and wait for it to reach 6.3 or less on it's own way down toward 5.5 again and this will take quite some time. At the point when it reaches 6.3-6.2 I'll apply enough lime (preferably in a fall season) to boost the PH back up to 6.7-6.8.

Optimum is good to get you started, but it's the "range" (6.3-6.7) that keeps you on top of things. Shoot for target, find out where you are, control the range. Also you must remember to take into consideration other additions (everything has a PH) like peat moss (acidic), wood ashes (alkaline), etc.

West of the lime line, where the soil is mostly alkaline, it's a mirror image story.

Good luck, and take more pictures. Especially when those
Jersey tamaters start swelling up. Mmm.

[Master_Gardener]

Originally Posted by nnjjohn

Okay, I recall a few seasons ago blindly adding and probably way too much lime to a few beds that undoubtedly have not fair well for any tomato plants. The plants struggle but don't die,, they eventually grow but don't produce much and if any, way late and few at eos. My question is what would be considered too much for a well composted bed of about a 100 sq.ft? And I think I over applied the following season too..I seem to look okay with the color test capsule rapitest kit.. but I think I still overdosed a couple of my troubled tomato beds using too much lime. I thought at the time, tomato plants like lots of lime/ I also used lots of wood ash my the wood stove too over the last few years. probably used in total last four seasons.. one full bag of lime and at least a couple five gallon buckets of wood ash ( about a five gallon every season.. I haven't limed last two season but prior to that I used about a 10lbs per bed per season. Going to send some soil out to get tested soon. Just curious if I used too much of either/both.

This sounds like a LOT of lime to me if 10 lbs per 100 sq ft bed per season. Lime, as with any other amendment, can build up in the soil and you can overshoot your target. I'm with Scott. I can't begin to make a recommendation without a soil test.

See if you can find a copy of "The Intelligent Gardener" by Steve Solomon at your local library. It's a small paperback, but loaded with soil mineral information. I found it very helpful.

[Got Worms?]

Originally Posted by Master_Gardener

This sounds like a LOT of lime to me if 10 lbs per 100 sq ft bed per season. Lime, as with any other amendment, can build up in the soil and you can overshoot your target. I'm with Scott. I can't begin to make a recommendation without a soil test.

See if you can find a copy of "The Intelligent Gardener" by Steve Solomon at your local library. It's a small paperback, but loaded with soil mineral information. I found it very helpful.

He's gotten his test back and he's right around P.H. 7.4 so he needs to plan his corrections.

[nnjjohn]

I was away for a week, planted last week after that frost warning.. but also used the vinegar/water on the soil to try and lower the 7.4 PH ..Well a Week later and what a surprise to see how fast they are all growing! They look like strong plants too! I'll take some pics after a while.. my swiss chard burpee seeds must be duds,, i might see if I can buy some swiss chard plants..i want to try growing some of them too. My cucumbers are already flowering. hope everybody is well here too! john

[nnjjohn]

Originally Posted by Got Worms?

Hi John, glad to see you're getting things under control.
I just thought I'd poke my nose in here to give you a little tip about P.H. management. First let me say that I am confident that, with the help you are getting here, you should have a pretty nice garden in no time.

RebelRidin, nice link, and excellent advice. Waiting until fall for the second application is the best plan. Another PH test at that time will confirm the amount of sulfur to be added, if any.

Since PH is constantly changing (towards it's norm for the area; mine being a native 5.5 here in NY) and knowing that a 6.5 is an optimum PH to keep most nutrients from becoming locked up, ...plus having a garden soil PH of 6.83, I will do nothing this year and wait for it to reach 6.3 or less on it's own way down toward 5.5 again and this will take quite some time. At the point when it reaches 6.3-6.2 I'll apply enough lime (preferably in a fall season) to boost the PH back up to 6.7-6.8.

Optimum is good to get you started, but it's the "range" (6.3-6.7) that keeps you on top of things. Shoot for target, find out where you are, control the range. Also you must remember to take into consideration other additions (everything has a PH) like peat moss (acidic), wood ashes (alkaline), etc.

West of the lime line, where the soil is mostly alkaline, it's a mirror image story.

Good luck, and take more pictures. Especially when those
Jersey tamaters start swelling up. Mmm.

yes, but what test do you use to read such PH range?.. I still have those test color capsules but it really is unreliable as far as I can tell trying to match color charts without specific ranges you indicated here is not possible without another (better) PH tester,, ty all once again,, oh btw, think the vinegar worked for now,, am I suppose to add more after a few weeks or will the plants tell me?