Black Cherry Multiflora?

[zipcode]

I think you guys are getting overexcited. I plant since a few years original seeds of BC from TGS, and they Always are multiflora (like shown in those pictures).
It's just the conditions which amplify this trait, I was sure of that until I saw this thread, I though it was normal. I prune my plants to 1 truss which does have that effect on tomatoes which aren't genetically 'locked' to few flowers per truss (I have had stupice with about 35 tomatoes and indian stripe with more than 6 lb on one truss).
I'm assuming the plants described here just thrived compared to other years and therefore considered it's time to make more fruit.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by zipcode

I think you guys are getting overexcited. I plant since a few years original seeds of BC from TGS, and they Always are multiflora (like shown in those pictures).
It's just the conditions which amplify this trait, I was sure of that until I saw this thread, I though it was normal. I prune my plants to 1 truss which does have that effect on tomatoes which aren't genetically 'locked' to few flowers per truss (I have had stupice with about 35 tomatoes and indian stripe with more than 6 lb on one truss).
I'm assuming the plants described here just thrived compared to other years and therefore considered it's time to make more fruit.

When BC was first offered the germination was very low as I and others found out and that's b'c they did their own seed production and there were many immature seeds.

Once going,though, all was well and never, but never, did I see any multiflora trait through all these years.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Black_Cherry

I wanted to see what year it was introduced, it was 2003, and this thread is the absolute first time that I've ever seen anyone refer to it as having a multiflora trait.

I asked Linda if Black Sweet was one of the parents and she said no,but no more.Tania says at her page it was a natural cross but I think Vince might have started with known parents or Linda would not have said that Black Sweet was not one of the parents.

I doubt that Vince would have used a parent with the multiflora trait since those of us who had seeds from the beginning never saw that.

Then I looked up the history of Rose Quartz and the multiflora version and here's the links to those two.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Rose_Quartz

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/R...rtz_Multiflora

Carolyn

[zipcode]

Here's one of my plants from last year.
They almost always start with one normal truss, and in the summer when it's warmer and better conditions they start having split branches.

[EBHarvey]

Zipcode - is it possible you and I received seeds from the same plant from TGS? Mine would have been purchased in 2010 or 2011 if I recall correctly.

It seems extremely unlikely that this multiple-branching of the fruit truss behavior would seemingly go unnoticed by so many people who have been growing this variety now for a decade if it were in fact "normal" for black cherry. I think it's much more likely, given the shared seed source, that you and I, and probably others, all received seeds from the same accidental cross or spontaneous mutation.

[Tania]

Originally Posted by zipcode

Here's one of my plants from last year.
They almost always start with one normal truss, and in the summer when it's warmer and better conditions they start having split branches.

I have seen pictures of other growers of Black Cherry with double trusses:
http://tatianastomatobase.com/w/imag...k_Cherry_1.jpg
http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/F...erry_Ripe0.jpg

So I would agree that this may not be a rare occurrence.

[zipcode]

Originally Posted by EBHarvey

Zipcode - is it possible you and I received seeds from the same plant from TGS? Mine would have been purchased in 2010 or 2011 if I recall correctly.

First time I ordered was 2009.

[carolyn137]

Has anyone decided to contact Linda Sapp and share what info you have with her.

After the first offering when they produced their own seed, seed has been produced for them.

If you can pin down a year or two when you purchased the seed that would help.

Tania, considering all the folks you got it from it's also possible that the multitruss ones you showed could also have resulted from seed that was produced for them.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/wiki/Black_Cherry

Many gave feedback above and none of them mentioned a multitruss.If I were to take the time to read all the SSE listings for it, which I don't, but off hand I can't remember anyone saying anything about it.

Whether a cross or a natural mutation, I'm not sure at this point, but I think it bears looking into and at the least asking Linda if anyone has ever reported back to her that they had a multitruss BC similar to say Ildi or Rose Quartz multi version or Riesentraube.

Linda is a Tville member so you could link to this thread if you e-mail her and she would be able to read it.

Carolyn

[Tania]

Carolyn,

It is certainly not what I would call 'multiflora' truss, not like Ildi or Rose Quartz Multiflora. So perhaps it is normal for Black Cherry to exhibit double trusses at some environmental conditions?

I have seen other cherry varieties with this type of double truss. Some heart-shaped varieties also show it.

I am so sorry I did not pay much attention to my Black Cherry flower trusses after I grew it first time in 2006. So honestly I do not remember the truss type in my garden. I have to look at it closer next year when I grow it

[EBHarvey]

Tania,

It may not show up all that well in the photos I posted, but several of the trusses on that plant last year went far beyond being simple double-trusses. As I recall, I counted 4 distinct splits on at least one of them. This is consistent with an allele expression according to figure 2C in the paper Carolyn linked-to earlier (http://www.plosbiology.org/article/i...l.pbio.0060288). This genetic trait is one of 3 that can determine or contribute to compound inflorescences.

So, I'm not sure how widespread this behavior is among black cherries, or how many people consider it "normal", but that paper strongly suggests that what I saw was is not consistent with the normal branching pattern on typical tomato fruit trusses.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies, ideas, and inputs - let's see how my growout progresses - I think that in a few weeks I'll have a pretty good idea whether or not I've got something special or just 30 black cherry plants doing what black cherry plants sometimes do.

[Tania]

I think I remember seeing 3 splits on some of my heart-shaped varieties, but I have to go back and look through all the pictures to make sure this is not a false memory LOL.

EDITED TO ADD: just looked at the pictures at the beginning of the thread again, and something looks very familiar - like I have seen something similar in my garden, but I have no photographic proof.

[livinonfaith]

I went out to take a look at my two Black Cherry plants today and decided to take a closer look at some of the trusses.

The majority of my trusses have eight or nine flowers. The fewest on one truss was five. A couple of the ones that are still what I would call a normal looking truss (one stem with alternating flowers on each side) had up to eleven. Then there were a couple more that split in two and had 10 - 14.

Then there were two big ones with a few divided stems that looked like the ones in this thread, one truss with 18 flowers and one with 20 flowers.

It looks like, as the plant has grown, some larger and more unusual trusses have begun to develop. The two large trusses are on my largest Black Cherry plant, the one that gets the most sun. So I wonder if many Black Cherries have the potential for this trait, but only develop it in optimal conditions, like someone else suggested.

It would certainly be fun to find one that does this all the time, but I also wonder if the difference in fruit set would be higher or if there would just be fewer trusses if there were more tomatoes per truss.

Does anyone know if multiflora plants produce more actual tomatoes by weight than your average plant with the same size fruit?

[zipcode]

I'd say multiflora are more productive, yes. At least compared to the plant size. Not sure how they would compare if you let them grow wild, things might change a bit.
Here's a cherry (grape) that produced almost as much as my best beefsteaks (in weight).

[zipcode]

Hm, is there a way to add more attachments, afterwards, with edit?

[tnkrer]

My observations match with those of Livinonfaith. I was pruning my tomato plants today and found 3 more split trusses on the black cherry plant. (At a level higher than my first double truss). One of those was a multi flora truss with what seems like 4 separate trusses. I counted 24 buds on it. That one is in early stages of blooming and is still not done, when it develops better, I will post an image.
(Also noticed 3 more double/multi trusses on yellow pear. However, none on the sunsugar which is right next to these two cherries.

[tnkrer]

Originally Posted by zipcode

Hm, is there a way to add more attachments, afterwards, with edit?

Whoa! There are more tomatoes than leaves on that plant .. I want that one