I think I'm going no-till - Page 4

Worth1 · June 17, 2015

You may be too low in P and K but I have never have low yields due to too much nitrogen.
And I mean up to the point of burning the tips of the leaves.

But that is in Texas and not where you live.

worth

Cole_Robbie · June 17, 2015

I'm injecting 4-18-38 into the drip. I am noticing good flowering right now on my indeterminate outdoor plants, so maybe the lack of early fruitset was due to our rainy, cloudy weather.

Worth1 · June 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I'm injecting 4-18-38 into the drip. I am noticing good flowering right now on my indeterminate outdoor plants, so maybe the lack of early fruitset was due to our rainy, cloudy weather.

That is exactly what happened to me this year the blooms were just too wet for some varieties.

Worth

Cole_Robbie · June 17, 2015

My plants are like trees. I keep seeing birds in them. They are probably building nests.

By the end of the year, my 50'x50' garden is going to look like a house-sized chunk of tomato vines dropped out of the sky.

heirloomtomaguy · June 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

I think I over-did it.

I have a massive whitefly infestation in my high tunnel. My dwarfs have it the worst. I am wondering if making the soil too rich has something to do with attracting pests.

My high tunnel plants that are supposed to be "compact determinates" are all 6-7 foot tall giant hedges. The first year I grew Taxi in unimproved soil, the plant got about 2 1/2 feet tall. Now my Taxi is a 7' tall bush. It is no longer a compact determinate, by any means. I planted one row of indeterminates in the high tunnel, and they are ridiculously gigantic. They are up to the high tunnel roof already.

My outdoor plants are getting so big that the rows are growing together. It's going to be one massive jungle of vines that all grow together.

But my giant plants are not giving me giant yields, at least not yet. It could be the whiteflies. It could be the weather. Or I could have too much nitrogen in my cow field dirt.

I don't exactly have any regrets. This has been a learning experience. Maybe when I expand my garden next year, I will grow a different crop where I have tomatoes this year. I'm thinking if I was growing many other crops besides tomatoes, I would be having a huge success. Unfortunately, there's not a market for tomato vines w/o fruit on them.

I too over did the nitrogen last year. I had these 6 ft tall beauties that had hardly a bloom. Then i found Earth Juice Bloom Master. It is water soluble 0-50-30 bat guano and steamed bone meal. I foliar sprayed my plants twice with this stuff at half strength and man oh man did the blossoms come. I had so many tomatoes after the application that i was sick and tired of picking them. I did the same to my peppers and had a bloom explosion. This stuff works awesome and as far as i can tell is the only Organic water soluble phosphorus around. An a little goes a way long way. I used a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water.

Cole_Robbie · June 17, 2015

Thanks for the tip. Do you have to follow it up with water? I never know when I am supposed to leave spray dry on the plant indefinitely, versus wash it off at some point, especially in the high tunnel, which doesn't get rain to wash the plants off.

Mike723 · June 17, 2015

Hope it works out for you Cole.. I finally ditched my ez-flo.. Got sick of toying with it.. I initially thought I was flowing just fine but it seems to stop half way through. I began around 600ppm and an hour into it I got down to 300 (in the reservoir) - another hour and I was still at 300ppm.. Two hours worth of watering and still not done?! It's just a cheaply made homeowner deal so I wasn't expecting perfection, but..... Between setup time and the lacking efficacy it'll just be easier to go back to the ol' hand feeding..

Cole_Robbie · June 17, 2015

Yeah, I am ticked at EZ Flo, too. Their main fitting leaked, so I gave dripworks $20 for a new one. The old one broke taking it apart, and the new one started leaking exactly the same way after the 2nd use. It really is a piece of junk.

Morgan County Seed sells an injector they assemble themselves for each order. It's like $140, a little pricier than the EZ Flo, but less than half what a Dosmatic/Dosatron would cost. That's my next injector.

heirloomtomaguy · June 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Thanks for the tip. Do you have to follow it up with water? I never know when I am supposed to leave spray dry on the plant indefinitely, versus wash it off at some point, especially in the high tunnel, which doesn't get rain to wash the plants off.

Im in Southern California its like being in a high tunnel it never rains here either

I leave it on the plants and they do just fine for me. Since i found this product i have never been happier with the results.

HydroExplorer · June 17, 2015

I'm assuming you've grown them in these same high tunnels with a very different growth pattern.

So the plants look healthy but are growing without much fruit but a lot of vine. I'm also assuming they're not leggy but rather just have a lot of foleage. I think you're right in diagnosing it as too much nitrogen.

http://homeguides.sfgate.com/signs-m...oes-72800.html

They're saying you can add bonemeal or colloidal phosphate to fix the problem.

If they're too tall you can also top them. One time I was fruiting a tomato plant indoors and I think I accidentally cut off the lead growth. Instead of kicking off more suckers it just kept kicking off fruit sites. I had 2 fruit sites at every node. 10" tall plant with > 50 flowers. What I'm saying is that I think you can still get good yield if you can get the soil balanced even if you cut off the terminal growth.

I've grown most of my plants indoors so I don't know much about pests.

Worth1 · June 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Yeah, I am ticked at EZ Flo, too. Their main fitting leaked, so I gave dripworks $20 for a new one. The old one broke taking it apart, and the new one started leaking exactly the same way after the 2nd use. It really is a piece of junk.

Morgan County Seed sells an injector they assemble themselves for each order. It's like $140, a little pricier than the EZ Flo, but less than half what a Dosmatic/Dosatron would cost. That's my next injector.

I hate to say it but I am glad to hear this about EZ Flow.
I'm glad I didn't buy one.
Thanks for the update.
Worth

Mike723 · June 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Yeah, I am ticked at EZ Flo, too. Their main fitting leaked, so I gave dripworks $20 for a new one. The old one broke taking it apart, and the new one started leaking exactly the same way after the 2nd use. It really is a piece of junk.

Morgan County Seed sells an injector they assemble themselves for each order. It's like $140, a little pricier than the EZ Flo, but less than half what a Dosmatic/Dosatron would cost. That's my next injector.

Agreed, it's just so poorly made.. Entire waste of money.. Let me guess, the plastic nipples for the inlet and outlet broke when trying to loosen the bib adapter? That's what happened to mine.. They didn't even snap like a quality plastic, they kinda stretched first and then decided to let go.. lol garbage.. If you would, follow up with your experience dealing with Morgan County's.. Or if I beat you to it I'll do the same lol..

Redbaron · June 17, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

You may be too low in P and K but I have never have low yields due to too much nitrogen.
And I mean up to the point of burning the tips of the leaves.

But that is in Texas and not where you live.

worth

All nitrogen is not created equal. However, the symptom of rank foliage with little fruit set also depends on cultivar response to high nitrogen.

I found this from 1934: New Jersey State Horticultural Society News

In the bottom of the first page and the beginning of the second they discuss that the (at the time) new variety Rutgers shouldn't be fertilised with as much nitrogen as the Pritchard cultivars, or else "the vines may be too rank and the fruit will be late in setting and developing"

Almost all commercial varieties now a days, and a lot of OP varieties too, although they are not Rutgers, they do have Rutgers in their parentage somewhere. So I would suspect that is very likely what's going on.

Other things to consider are pollinators, maybe companion plants like basil and borage? A high tunnel does block a lot of wind too. I personally would take the cover right off the whole high tunnel for now and try and get some natural predators attracted (or bought) to deal with the whiteflies.

Lindalana · June 18, 2015

Cole, here is recipe from Dan Skow- 2 tbsp of ammonia and 4 tbsp of apple cider vinegar for 2 quarts of water for 1000 sq feet foliar app.
It will switch your growing pattern to fruiting pattern. You need sufficient calcium in the soil for it to work and ammonia can be hard to find.

Cole_Robbie · June 18, 2015

Thanks for the help.

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June 17, 2015	#46
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	You may be too low in P and K but I have never have low yields due to too much nitrogen. And I mean up to the point of burning the tips of the leaves. But that is in Texas and not where you live. worth

June 17, 2015	#47
Cole_Robbie Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2012 Location: Illinois, zone 6 Posts: 8,407	I'm injecting 4-18-38 into the drip. I am noticing good flowering right now on my indeterminate outdoor plants, so maybe the lack of early fruitset was due to our rainy, cloudy weather.

June 17, 2015	#52
Mike723 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: CT Posts: 290	Hope it works out for you Cole.. I finally ditched my ez-flo.. Got sick of toying with it.. I initially thought I was flowing just fine but it seems to stop half way through. I began around 600ppm and an hour into it I got down to 300 (in the reservoir) - another hour and I was still at 300ppm.. Two hours worth of watering and still not done?! It's just a cheaply made homeowner deal so I wasn't expecting perfection, but..... Between setup time and the lacking efficacy it'll just be easier to go back to the ol' hand feeding..

June 17, 2015	#55
HydroExplorer Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 132	I'm assuming you've grown them in these same high tunnels with a very different growth pattern. So the plants look healthy but are growing without much fruit but a lot of vine. I'm also assuming they're not leggy but rather just have a lot of foleage. I think you're right in diagnosing it as too much nitrogen. http://homeguides.sfgate.com/signs-m...oes-72800.html They're saying you can add bonemeal or colloidal phosphate to fix the problem. If they're too tall you can also top them. One time I was fruiting a tomato plant indoors and I think I accidentally cut off the lead growth. Instead of kicking off more suckers it just kept kicking off fruit sites. I had 2 fruit sites at every node. 10" tall plant with > 50 flowers. What I'm saying is that I think you can still get good yield if you can get the soil balanced even if you cut off the terminal growth. I've grown most of my plants indoors so I don't know much about pests.

June 18, 2015	#59
Lindalana Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Chicago IL Posts: 857	Cole, here is recipe from Dan Skow- 2 tbsp of ammonia and 4 tbsp of apple cider vinegar for 2 quarts of water for 1000 sq feet foliar app. It will switch your growing pattern to fruiting pattern. You need sufficient calcium in the soil for it to work and ammonia can be hard to find.