Larger Tomatoes With Real Taste

[Fusion_power]

See my website Don at http://www.selectedplants.com/ and you will find that I can throw rocks into Mississippi.

Heirlooms in general are not better than hybrids. There are some heirlooms, however, that are dramatically better flavored than hybrids. Brandywine (Sudduth) is one of the best. Aunt Ruby's German Green consistently hits in the top 5. Aunt Gertie's Gold is the best flavored variety I've grown from the Yellow/Gold/Orange group. Andrew Rahart's Jumbo Red is extremely good. Nepal is another thats consistently very high. Heidi is one of the best producing paste types I've grown and decent flavored to boot. Opalka is a long somewhat hot pepper shaped tomato with lots of flavor for topnotch sauces. I personally like Marianna's Peace for its exceptional production and very good flavor. Others have not had the same results which I think can be attributed to differences in soil and sunlight exposure of my plants vs theirs.

Fusion

[TomatoDon]

Oh great, I know exactly where you are. I had been to that website before but didn't pay attention to the location. I used to do some field trialing over in that area. Had friends there.

Do you seeds and seedlings both?

Don

[Catntree]

Fusion,

As far as Marianna's Peace, I grew the ribbed-from TGS, I think... and the non-ribbed from you last year. The fruits from your selection were completely different from the ribbed ones- a fine tomato- but your Marianna's is a fabulous tomato...possibly the best tasting. I found MP to have perfect balance.

[TomatoDon]

And here are the results of The Great Tomato contest. Oddly, most were just mentioned one time. Huge diversity here.

I went though each reply and tried to list those that were mentioned favorably. Some were mentioned negatively and I left those out. Some of you "seconded" other varieties, and I included this in the list.

I typed in each variety from the replies, and if the name came up again I put a Roman Numeral beside it. Cuostralee IIII was the clear winner, and was mentioned five times. Sometimes I left in the notes that were added after the name. In all, I think 54 different varieties made the list.

Now I need to revise my list again. Aker's West Viginia and Aunt Gertie's Gold may make the new list. Big Beef already did. I hope I'm not biting off more than I can chew.

Don

Aker’s West Virginia
Andrew Rahart's Jumbo Red
Anna Russian
Aunt Gertie's Gold I
Aunt Ginny’s Purple I
Aunt Ruby’s German Green I
Big Beef I
Big Zac
Brandy Boy
Brandywine II
Soldacki (note the spelling Carolyn)
Brandywine Sudduth I
Bulgarian
Carbon
Caspian Pink and
Cuostralee IIII
Daniels
Deacon’s Gift
Earl’s Faux I
Ernesto
Faux Box Car Willie
German Head
German Red Strawberry
Giant Belgium
Gregori Altai.
Gregoris Altai
Grub's Mystery Green
Heidi
Hughes (pale yellow)
Jaune Flammee I
Large Pink
Lucky Cross
Lyuda's Mom's large red Ukraine.
Mariannia’s Peace ribbed
Mariannna’s Peace I
Mexico
Milka’s Red
Mortgage Lifter
Mule Team
Nepal
Neves Azorean Red (red) I
Olena Ukrainian
Omar’s Lebonese II
Opalka
OTV Brandywine I
Red Barn
Red Brandywine
Regina’s Yellow
Russian Botatyr
Tennessee Britches (pink) I
Tidwell German I
Wes I
Yellow Brandywine
Zogola I

[greggf]

Fusion says,

"Heirlooms in general are not better than hybrids. There are some heirlooms, however, that are dramatically better flavored than hybrids."

I'd like to nominate that as an excellent, fair, and accurate statement, by an excellent, fair, and honest plantsman.

Of course, he's nuts when he says that Big Beef tastes better than Better Boy, hehhehheh

I think a major problem both here in Tomatoville and back at GW is that newbies will be misled into thinking that heirlooms are uniformly superior - and somehow, oddly, morally superior as well - by the fact that many posters are heirloom enthusiasts.

I've had a hard time understanding that a lot of folks grow heirlooms not for the flavor - although they may delude themselves into thinking it is because of flavor - but simply because of the diversity of colors and shapes available.

That's not a path that interests me, but I can see how it might interest others. Fusion nicely puts the issue in balance.

And Brandywine (Sudduth) may well be the best-tasting big one. My issue with it is that 2 years out of 3, the taste is off. Southern Exposure has a statement on their website to the effect that strongly-flavored tomatoes may develop "off-tastes" under certain growing conditions. That's certainly my experience.

So does one go for the wall with Brandywine, or punt with Better Boy, which seems consistent from year to year and region to region? Does one give up a little flavor to get a better guarantee of success? Or does one become obsessed and seek perfection and grow one of everything, like a fat pig?

Such is this hobby!!

=gregg=

[TomatoDon]

Well, here is the revised list. Is it a little more balanced?

I do prefer the reds in color, so I added Brandywine Red per what Suze said. Remember on the list below, I've only grown or seen two of them. Better Boy and Rutgers. I know it's a small one, but I like the taste.

Okay, you talked me into dropping Big Boy. It took some arm twisting! I'll drop it, but not Better Boy. Has been a staple with me for years.

I'm a true novice with Heirlooms. Are there certain varieties listed that I should plant more or less of? My beds are best suited to plant three or six varieties each. I have 54 planting spaces, but would like to hold one bed out for melons. That would give me 48. I can do the 54 if I have to. Are any of the ones listed more suited to be grouped together?

Sungold and a small red, maybe Sweet Million or something, will be in whiskey barrels. (Did I spell it right this time?)

Comments please?

Don

1. Aker’s West Virginia (Red, 85 days)
2. Aunt Ginny’s Purple (Pink/Purple 75-85 days)
3. Better Boy (Red, 75 days)
4. Big Beef (Red? 75 days)
5. Brandy Boy (Pink, 75-80 days)
6. Brandywine Sudduth (Pink, 80 days)
7. Brandywine Red (Red, 80-90 days)
8. Carbon (Black, 80 days)
9. Cherokee Purple (Pink/Purple, 80 days)
10. Cuostralee (Red, 85 days)
11. Marianna'a Peace (Pink, 85 days)
12. Neves Azorean Red (Red, 80 days)
13. Rutgers (Red, 75 days)
14. Stump of the World (Pink, 80 days)

REDS: 7
PINKS: 4
Purple: 2
Black: 1

[Dunkel]

"I think a major problem both here in Tomatoville and back at GW is that newbies will be misled into thinking that heirlooms are uniformly superior - and somehow, oddly, morally superior as well - by the fact that many posters are heirloom enthusiasts." greggf

If your plan is to buy seeds everytime you run out of a variety, then grow hybrids. My interest in heirlooms is the fact that seed can be saved and planted the following year or traded. There are old varieties out there that aren't commercially available and quite rare. I like to think that by growing a rare variety and sharing the seeds that I'm in a small way preventing a variety from disappearing.

I also share alot of the produce I grow with others. If they like a tomato I gave them they can save some seeds from it and grow it themselves.

[carolyn137]

Don and others ( see below),

Your list looks fine.

And that's

Brandywine(Sudduth), since Sudduth is a strain of Brandywine, and

Red Brandywine, not the reverse although in many indexes they list the Brandywine first, just for easier looking up, as it were.

About hybrids and heirlooms.

I've always grown both, and my fave hybrids tend to be the older ones since I do find they have better taste, and that would mean Moreton Hybrid, Supersonic and Jet Star, the trio bred by Harris Seeds originally, as well as Sungold and now Ramapo since I've got it dehybridized. And sometimes in the past I've also grown Big Boy and Better Boy, the fact that each has one parent named Teddy Jones, a large pink heirloom from the midwest notwithstanding.

My experience in growing other hybrids has not been overwhelmingly positive in terms of taste. And until quite recently yield of anything has not been a primary consideration since I've had unlimited space in the past to grow what I want and however many plants I want to.

And I'm not one who thinks that Brandywine is the best tasting heirloom. A different taste and superb, yes, but taste is so complex that I can't and won't call it the best.

Since taste is also dependent on factors other than the primary one of genes, there's always room for variability from year to year with the taste of any variety.

Carolyn

[TomatoDon]

I always love/hate it when C answers. I love it because I get the best knowledge and advice out there. But I hate it because when she replies, every one shuts up and listens, and the thread goes dry while we all shut up and listen.

I will read it again C. to comprehend all you said.

I will keep it carefully. (E. H.)

Don

[carolyn137]

Don my friend,

I did that post above yours at 10 AM this morning, you posted at 10:38 AM and I dare say there's been no time for this thread to run dry just b'c of me.

Look at any thread where I've posted and tell me it ran dry b/c I posted. :wink:

Carolyn, who also notes that with as many pages as this thread already has it surely is getting near the end of its viable lifetime

[travis]

" ... and now Ramapo since I've got it dehybridized ..." [Carolyn]

Carolyn,

Can you give us a brief on dehybridized Ramapo as it stands?

One thing I'd like to know is were the seeds you sent to Barkeater F3 seeds from F2 plants? Or what?

What I'm gettin' at is Bark has forwarded some seeds marked "F4" and I wonder if they're F4 seeds from F3 plants, or if they're seeds from an F4 plant and are gonna generate F5s?

I'm tryin' to keep this straight as I'm finished pokin' in pepper seeds and plan on startin' tomato seeds next week.

Should I tag these Ramapoes "F4" or "F5?"

Any description from you or Bark regardin' what the heck to look for and what to rogue out will be greatly appreciated.

Of course I hopin', as you say, they're already dehybridized which'll make it real simple ... plant, pick, eat!

Bill

[carolyn137]

PV,

You've asked me the same Ramapo questions before.

I sent Bark both F2 and F3 seeds b'c at first he couldn't get the F2's to do well.

If he sent you seeds labelled F4 they were from the F3 plants he got from my F3 seeds.

In the F3 I saw nothing that needed to be deleted out, can't spell rouging..sp??? right now, LOL, but that was based on four, no six plants.

I don't think Bark saw anything other than Ramapo either.

So it's either stable now or darn close to it depending on how many plants you put out.

If the several folks who grew out the F2 and F3 seed I distributed didn't see any off types, then I doubt that you will either.

Carolyn

[TomatoDon]

Thanks C!

I guess "runs dry" was not the best term. Maybe the thread just slows down to read what you say. Then, it surges forward in response to your reply.

And you don't see anything wrong with my revised list? Three of each?

Don

[barkeater]

Yes, the Ramapo seeds I'm sending out were from tomatoes harvested last year from the F3 seeds Carolyn sent me. Therefore, they are F4's, and plants from these seeds will yield F5 seeds.

The two F2 plants I had I gave away. Noone I gave plants to kept track of what was what so I don't know how they turned out, but my F3's looked tasted just as I remembered.

[TomatoDon]

Craig and Suze...weigh in on my list and tell me what you think. C already has. Anything to cull? Anything to add?

Don