Hybrid-Heirlooms

[travis]

Comment #60 is the best of 4 pages. Thanks, Don.

[amideutch]

These OP, Heirloom, Hybrid discussions usually cause more heat than light.

And a lot of dead horses.

[ScottinAtlanta]

I do appreciate this entire thread, and similar ones. They are instructive to those of us who depend on labels and descriptions to understand what we are planting. My garden has greatly improved as a result of these seemingly abstract discussions. So please, keep them coming.

[Doug9345]

While some may find some these discussions boring I think they are very important. They very first thing I've always done when researching or learning a new subject is to learn the nomenclature for it and then learn which terms are either fuzzy or debated. They are particularly important if one is engaged in either buying or selling.

I mentioned antique as applied to the used before where it generally if not always has legal definitions to it. Collectable is another term that I as far as I can tell means "I think you ought to pay me more for this because I think it's valuable"

I find it fascinating to watch language change across my life time. Heirloom as applied to varieties will go one of three way. It will disappear, it will get applied to all open pollinated varities, or it will come to be defined legally in some set of regulations.


I think part of the problem is that we are attempting to cover different more than one sub category of tomatoes with one sub-category term --heirloom.

We have the category of tomatoes that is 1940's and older, more recently breed OP tomatoes, wild tomatoes and tomato like species, accessions or various mutations and a few categories that don't come to my mind.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by Doug9345

While some may find some these discussions boring I think they are very important . . .

I think part of the problem is that we are attempting to cover different more than one sub category of tomatoes with one sub-category term --heirloom. We have the category of tomatoes that is 1940's and older, more recently breed OP tomatoes, wild tomatoes and tomato like species, accessions or various mutations and a few categories that don't come to my mind.

I think you're right about the importance of these discussions, for the reasons you mentioned and also because new people are continually becoming interested in gardening and needing to get a feel for the meanings of various category labels.

And I think you're right about heirloom being used to cover many sub-groups . . . but perhaps the language evolution you mentioned is solving the problem by developing labels like commercial heirloom, created heirloom, family heirloom, native heirloom, with 'heirloom' meaning 'a thing of value that has been or is expected to be handed down through generations' and the modifiers in the process of becoming commonly understood descriptions of origin?

[AKmark]

I kinda got amused, but also have a suggestion. Here at Tomatoville the meaning of heirloom, OP, and hybrid, could be voted on, in a thread of its own, and pasted for future villians to take note of.
As an example, obviously, Brandywine is an heirloom, Chocolate Stripes an OP, and Early Girl is a hybrid, to me anyway. You family tree experts should post three sentences explaining your take on the variables that classify the three possibilities as one or the other. For fun if anything.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by AKmark

I kinda got amused, but also have a suggestion. Here at Tomatoville the meaning of heirloom, OP, and hybrid, could be voted on, in a thread of its own, and pasted for future villians to take note of.
As an example, obviously, Brandywine is an heirloom, Chocolate Stripes an OP, and Early Girl is a hybrid, to me anyway. You family tree experts should post three sentences explaining your take on the variables that classify the three possibilities as one or the other. For fun if anything.

Before a vote could be taken, and I don't I've ever seen one here since the day the site opened in Jan of 2006, you'd have to have a single definition for each of those, not multiple definitions, and so it's back to square one.

And adding OTHER to such a vote as I've seen at just a couple of other places isn't going to help either.

Carolyn, who addmitedly is not a fan of votes anyway b/c in her opinion they don't lead to anything conclusive, not that they were designed to do anyway.

[Worth1]

I ran across this site while looking for something else.
Take a look at there hybrid tomato list.

Worth


http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j...90939757470100

[Doug9345]

Originally Posted by AKmark

I kinda got amused, but also have a suggestion. Here at Tomatoville the meaning of heirloom, OP, and hybrid, could be voted on, in a thread of its own, and pasted for future villians to take note of.
As an example, obviously, Brandywine is an heirloom, Chocolate Stripes an OP, and Early Girl is a hybrid, to me anyway. You family tree experts should post three sentences explaining your take on the variables that classify the three possibilities as one or the other. For fun if anything.

Since 50 years seems to be a date used
You picked easy ones. What about Green Zebra 20 years from now. It was bred in 1983. Another one is High Crimson from 1963 or 1964.

[JLJ_]

Originally Posted by Doug9345

Since 50 years seems to be a date used
You picked easy ones. What about Green Zebra 20 years from now. It was bred in 1983. Another one is High Crimson from 1963 or 1964.

Call the "under 50's" heirloom candidates and when one has been around for 50 years post a "Today You Are an Heirloom Tomato" thread?



I'm not sure a vote or poll serves a purpose, except for those who just enjoy them, as those who ask about meaning of category labels are probably just trying to develop an idea of how various labels are currently used, and I suspect that those interested get the best feeling for that by reading threads like this that say 'they're sorta, kinda, used like this, except when they're not.'

[AKmark]

Originally Posted by Doug9345

Since 50 years seems to be a date used
You picked easy ones. What about Green Zebra 20 years from now. It was bred in 1983. Another one is High Crimson from 1963 or 1964.

Doug, if you look at the 50 year requirement, the 50 year bench/ date would have to move with time, or the date is set forever. I picked those because I assume they are pretty clear in classification. I liked pre 1940, but that may be ridiculous to use in the year 2150, or so.
Worth, that is worth noting,(lol) some interesting names in there.