Starting 87 Year Old Seeds

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by mikemansker

Phillips screws were invented in the early 1930's. Burlap in a shadow box displayed on a wall without any exposure to sunlight and sealed from dust, etc. might well appear new. The videos may or may not represent the truth, but I choose to believe that it's entirely possible.

Lets do a simple math based on what you mentioned :

2017 - 87 = 1930. .
Even without exposure to direct sun light things get old and colors fade, even the print on the packets, exposed to air and light ( Hanging on the wall ).
I wonder if back then they printed seed packets in color.

[Jimbotomateo]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

Lets do a simple math based on what you mentioned :

2017 - 87 = 1930. .
Even without exposure to direct sun light things get old and colors fade, even the print on the packets, exposed to air and light ( Hanging on the wall ).
I wonder if back then they printed seed packets in color.

Seems more likely the seeds were kept in a drawer or something most of their life.. No clue if they are real but I believe there's still some old items around. Including me.. Around 1970 I was making a delivery for my uncle, he owned a pipe supply warehouse, when I passed thru a little desert town in nowhere USA. Went into an old hardware store and there was very early Case knives display case. Tried to buy and antique bone handled Case knife but the old dude that owned the store said, not for sale. He then stated the only way he'd sell was the whole wood and glass and knives display case. It was still half full of knives! . I wanted it bad but 200 bucks was a lot of money back then.. .Jimbo

[Worth1]

Sure they did I have all sorts of stuff from back then that was printed in color.

Lets look at something else.
Unless they cleaned this critter up really well it would be covered in tobacco smoke.
Everybody smoked everywhere back then and up until the early 80's even.
This is the way I see it.
The frame is a fake so the seeds are a fake they may be old but not that old.

As for the guy I cant stand to watch his videos he gets on my nerves big time.
Saying things like put together and assembled back to back drives me nuts.
They both mean the same thing, it is almost as bad as saying done done it.
Yes people like him, it is nice that maybe they are getting into gardening due to him.
He has a nice wife and baby.
Fine he still drives me nuts.

I cannot express to you guys how easy it is to con people.
I used to do it for fun.

Never will forget the time I had a guy convinced with little effort that he was holding one of Hitlers personal Luger pistols at a gun shop.
The guy was about to dump money on it before we told him it was a joke.
Then there was the Goering hunting rifle story.
In both cases the price was too good to turn down but way higher than they were worth.
Both cases they were people we knew not strangers off the street.
This is how you rip people off by using their own greed against them.
They cant give you money fast enough.

Worth

[Hellmanns]

I happened to see "AMS" stamped into the metal hanging bracket as he was removing it from the shadow box. A Google search revealed that the company was founded in 1976.
http://www.artmaterialsservice.com
I also searched for the listing on Etsy, but I can't find it.
At this point, I feel like this kid put all of this together in his garage for the reasons I outlined earlier.

[JohnJones]

Originally Posted by sjamesNorway

I've been following this thread, and feel that part of Hellman's argument, "That frame, burlap, screws, and glue are NOT 90 years old", IS logical. My guess is that the young gardening enthusiast has been duped. It's NOT logical to believe that he has managed to revive seeds that were "hanging on a wall at Lancaster County Seed Co.", and are 80+ years old, when Carolyn writes, "It's good to know that the oldest tomato seeds ever confirmed to germinate were 50 yo seeds."

JohnJones writes: " Hard to fake those seed packets and for what reason". I don't know how hard it would be to fake the seed packs, but they show very little sign of aging. The seed packs in post 36 are closer to what his should look like. I worked as chief technician in an art museum, and know well what acids, even in paper, can do to art, which is why acid-free paper is used in all framing. Burlap is inherently acidic (more so than paper), and those packets would be very discolored if the "shadow box" was even just 10 years old. As for "for what reason" - Luke says he paid a "hefty price", which is reason enough for those who sold it to him to fake it.
I have no reason to doubt the sincerity of the young man (though he is running a seed business), but I don't find it LOGICAL to believe that obviously forged seed packs contain 80+ year old seeds.
One other thing: I've done an extensive internet search, and find no mention of a "Giant Crimson" tomato, though one may very well have existed. (I found "Crimson Giant", which is a Russian variety.)

Steve

Do I understand you to believe that the seed packs are "obviously forged"? If so I have to very respectfully disagree. You make a number of other good points and I'm glad you took interest in the thread.

[JohnJones]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

I happened to see "AMS" stamped into the metal hanging bracket as he was removing it from the shadow box. A Google search revealed that the company was founded in 1976.
http://www.artmaterialsservice.com
I also searched for the listing on Etsy, but I can't find it.
At this point, I feel like this kid put all of this together in his garage for the reasons I outlined earlier.

Well if he did then I would agree he is a scam artist of the first order. I still don't think that.

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by JohnJones

Well if he did then I would agree he is a scam artist of the first order. I still don't think that.

It's 100% now that the frame is fake. They didn't use staples back then either, they used tacks on that type project. The Arrow Staple gun wasn't invented until the 50's.
https://www.arrowfastener.com

I also wonder why he opened the box from the bottom? "I've" never done that before, and I've opened several boxes in my days. I always open the top where the shipping label is.

[Worth1]

You would think more people would have called him out on this but they haven't.
This is because he can go in and delete any reply he wants to.
Has he done this I dont know but I would suspect he has.

Worth

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by Worth1

You would think more people would have called him out on this but they haven't.
This is because he can go in and delete any reply he wants to.
Has he done this I dont know but I would suspect he has.

Worth

His channel caters to millennials. For the most part, they don't question. But they should.

[JohnJones]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

It's 100% now that the frame is fake. They didn't use staples back then either, they used tacks on that type project. The Arrow Staple gun wasn't invented until the 50's.
https://www.arrowfastener.com

I also wonder why he opened the box from the bottom? "I've" never done that before, and I've opened several boxes in my days. I always open the top where the shipping label is.

I believe (and have said) that the story of the shadowbox is inaccurate. Either he was lied to or the story was misunderstood by him or someone else in the chain of the item's ownership. Or somebody is lying, possibly him or the seller. I tend to fall on the misunderstood story before accusing someone of a fake or lie, but it's certainly possible.

I had also wondered about opening from the bottom and concluded he was trying not to show personal info on the shipping label. I also noted that the item was packed very well for shipping, especially if he faked it.

[BigVanVader]

I've watched several of his vids and IMO he gives out a lot of bad information. I also think the vid in question is a dramatic ploy to get subscribers. I have followed most garden channels at some point and many start innocently but then become slaves to the dollar and start trying to create"cutting edge content"

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by BigVanVader

I've watched several of his vids and IMO he gives out a lot of bad information. I also think the vid in question is a dramatic ploy to get subscribers. I have followed most garden channels at some point and many start innocently but then become slaves to the dollar and start trying to create"cutting edge content"

You nailed it! That's when I hit the unsubscribe button.

[JohnJones]

I've said from early in this thread that opinions will differ. My opinion is this thread definitely proves that to be true.

[JohnJones]

Originally Posted by Hellmanns

You nailed it! That's when I hit the unsubscribe button.

When did you hit the subscribe button?

[Hellmanns]

Originally Posted by JohnJones

I believe (and have said) that the story of the shadowbox is inaccurate. Either he was lied to or the story was misunderstood by him or someone else in the chain of the item's ownership. Or somebody is lying, possibly him or the seller. I tend to fall on the misunderstood story before accusing someone of a fake or lie, but it's certainly possible.

I had also wondered about opening from the bottom and concluded he was trying not to show personal info on the shipping label. I also noted that the item was packed very well for shipping, especially if he faked it.

He has a seed business, why would he not want anyone to see his personal information? Unless..There was no shipping label..