Soil building for nutrient density

[Got Worms?]

Hi, Composter. Just thought I'd give you my testing procedure. I think comparative testing is better, if done with clones. A number of test, and control subject plants. 50/50 The cuttings all taken from a single donor (mother) and rooted using the same medium (weigh the medium), in the same size and type container, cleaned with 10% bleach solution. Each addition (water, ferts, etc.) weighed, then given to all the plants at the same time. All the plants receiving the same lighting. There should be only one difference; the test plants have the the additive to be tested. A log kept. And all additions logged.

Observation would include for each plant: weighing of plants (with container) at specific intervals; when the first blossoms appear on each plant, and how many; when fruit set occurs; when fruit ripening occurs; weight, appearance, taste, and brix of fruit picked; number of fruit and total weight of the fruit picked from each plant; and of course all observations noted in the log. Taking specific photos of the plants and adding them to the log reinforces your observations.

Studying the log will give a better representation of how the test plants are doing compared to the control plants.

When I do something like this I like to be able to say: "All things being equal... even though all things are never really equal...the closer you get...the more definitive your results are.

I understand that this is a bit much for many people. I don't do it that often and I’m retired. Just thought I'd throw it out there, in the spirit of helpfulness, for you to pick at and pluck, hopefully, something useful from.

[nnjjohn]

I have a question for soil building.. my beds are pretty clean, pulled all the weeds and vines and thinking of tilling and trying winter rye as it is said to be like a green manure i can till in early spring? Any other suggestions appreciated! john

[matilda'skid]

I like hairy vetch. I have never tried any other cover crop though.

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by nnjjohn

I have a question for soil building.. my beds are pretty clean, pulled all the weeds and vines and thinking of tilling and trying winter rye as it is said to be like a green manure i can till in early spring? Any other suggestions appreciated! john

I have used winter rye for years with very good results. Looks nice also. The drawback I have is I like the idea of being mostly no till and I have to incorporate the winter rye too deep into the soil, probably 4-6 inches. Not only is this killing microbes and disturbing my earthworms, it is a lot of time consuming work in the spring. Ideally you want to incorporate it 3-4 weeks before planting seeds so you also have to make sure the soil is not to wet and not to dry or you will destroy the soil structure when you chop or till it in. For those reasons I am going to 3-4 inches of a grass clippings chopped up leaves mixture for the first time this year. Hope it works.

Glenn

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by Got Worms?

Hi, Composter. Just thought I'd give you my testing procedure. I think comparative testing is better, if done with clones. A number of test, and control subject plants. 50/50 The cuttings all taken from a single donor (mother) and rooted using the same medium (weigh the medium), in the same size and type container, cleaned with 10% bleach solution. Each addition (water, ferts, etc.) weighed, then given to all the plants at the same time. All the plants receiving the same lighting. There should be only one difference; the test plants have the the additive to be tested. A log kept. And all additions logged.

Observation would include for each plant: weighing of plants (with container) at specific intervals; when the first blossoms appear on each plant, and how many; when fruit set occurs; when fruit ripening occurs; weight, appearance, taste, and brix of fruit picked; number of fruit and total weight of the fruit picked from each plant; and of course all observations noted in the log. Taking specific photos of the plants and adding them to the log reinforces your observations.

Studying the log will give a better representation of how the test plants are doing compared to the control plants.

When I do something like this I like to be able to say: "All things being equal... even though all things are never really equal...the closer you get...the more definitive your results are.

I understand that this is a bit much for many people. I don't do it that often and I’m retired. Just thought I'd throw it out there, in the spirit of helpfulness, for you to pick at and pluck, hopefully, something useful from.

Charlie, Thanks for sharing your method. Sounds very rational and thorough. Sounds like something the soil scientist Dr. William Albrecht would have done. Probably too much for me at this point. Because I am going for nutrient density, what I really need to do is get a refractometer and test for Brix levels. Although I am interested in yield it is the nutrition that I am after first, taste second and yield third. I'm so convinced that healthy soil = healthy crops= healthy me, that that is my true motivation behind this thread and this experiment.

Thanks for your input. I'm very interested in this subject and absolutley thrilled that this thread continues to recieve interest.

Glenn

[Got Worms?]

I have another one on order: Amazon

[Smithma]

I have always tilled in the past, but, since I installed a worm tower and have been feeding this season with worm castings, worm tea and kelp I believe I will try no till next season. I have seen a big increase in the worm population in the garden and also dont won't to destroy the microbe population I gained from the worm castings. Also started a compost bin and will spread prior to planting next season. I am also going to order and start testing the brix in next seasons tomatoes, may be the best way to gage the true soil condition/root uptake.

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by Smithma

I have always tilled in the past, but, since I installed a worm tower and have been feeding this season with worm castings, worm tea and kelp I believe I will try no till next season. I have seen a big increase in the worm population in the garden and also dont won't to destroy the microbe population I gained from the worm castings. Also started a compost bin and will spread prior to planting next season. I am also going to order and start testing the brix in next seasons tomatoes, may be the best way to gage the true soil condition/root uptake.

Gotta love those worms. Why not let them do the work of tilling and bringing organic matter to the root zone. Nothing like free employees. For some strange reason I am fascinated by them also. Actually, anything to do with soil. From what I have read, those castings are full of nutrients and microbes. When I pull weeds they usualy have a bit of soil stuck to the roots. I make a big pile of them and some leaves and after a month or so they are filled with worms and castings. I collect these castings and put them in our flower pots and house plants. I will move some of the worms to variouse new garden projects. So easy and so beneficial.

Glenn

[ScottinAtlanta]

I wish I could try no till, but the wisteria roots crawl 50 feet underground, and then up into my beds. These thick yellow roots suck the nutrients out of the soil. The only way to cut them out is to till, and ax them at the ground.

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

I wish I could try no till, but the wisteria roots crawl 50 feet underground, and then up into my beds. These thick yellow roots suck the nutrients out of the soil. The only way to cut them out is to till, and ax them at the ground.

Wow, I feel lucky that I don't have to deal with that stuff. Kudzu too. I do have Sumac but it hasn's invaded too much yet. You gotta do what you gotta do. Like a farmer friend of mine once told me when I asked her if her crops were grown organically. She said: "no we use integrated pest management because the first rule of thumb is to get a crop." So if tilling is what you have to do to get a crop then you till. How deep do the roots go?

[ScottinAtlanta]

I believe the mainline wisteria roots are a good 6-8 feet underground, and they obviously follow nutrient paths, sending up dozens of yellow roots right into the bottom of the beds. By seasons end, I have to cut through a dense mass of yellow fibers all through the bottom of the beds.

[COMPOSTER]

Originally Posted by ScottinAtlanta

I believe the mainline wisteria roots are a good 6-8 feet underground, and they obviously follow nutrient paths, sending up dozens of yellow roots right into the bottom of the beds. By seasons end, I have to cut through a dense mass of yellow fibers all through the bottom of the beds.

Is the wisteria on your property? Is it something you are growing by choice or is it invasive like kudzu?

[ScottinAtlanta]

It is not on my property, but it is invasive. The parent vines are massive cables that are killing trees across the property line. I might get permission this year to go after the parent vines, but it will take a chainsaw to cut them off at ground level, and that will not kill the plant, just slow it down.

[mtretter]

Hi!
I new to tomatoville but have been gardening for awhile. I hope I have this question in the correct forum. I am interested in trying out Interbay Mulch method for tomatoes and other veggies in West Central Illinois, zone 5 I believe. I have three lasagna beds I started last fall over established lawn in our back yard and Interbay mulch sounds like a refinement; covering the beds in burlap for retention of water, materials and general neatness of the beds. Right now I have Suncast recycled plastic 8'x4'x12" frames around the lasagna beds but was thinking I could convert them to Interbay Mulch beds at the end of this years growing season by adding more compost over the existing bed, removing the frames altogether, and then burlap over that to make the beds. I could then use the frames to create more lasagna beds over the winter and continue the process. Has anyone in zone 5 had luck with IM beds, and is there a viable low/no cost substitute for the burlap? Any all comments welcomed and appreciated!
Mark

[Doug9345]

First let me say welcome. If you don't get an answer in a day or so start a new thread. Not every one reads long threads if they think that they know what's being discussed in them.