New lights for seedlings.

[AlittleSalt]

I forgot about this thread. I checked at Walmert - close enough - They are selling T8 fixtures for $11 now. I didn't see any T12s.

I'm going to be building a specialized light fixture/hood this weekend, and I'll eventually have some wiring questions that I will be asking about.

[Labradors2]

I suggest you read the reviews on that Costco unit.

I looked at a fixture online from Costco that seemed similar, but someone commented that you could not replace the individual bulbs so it ended up being a very expensive light fixture!!!!

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I'm hoping to get hubby to build lights for me this year, but all the T8 bulbs sold in the big box stores are only 4,000 something, nowhere near the 6,500K that is recommended .

Linda

[sdambr]

The plastic bulbs are the same size as the t8s, but I don't think they are replaceable. I can remove the reflector, but the bulbs seem permanent. I will try a bit more.

[sdambr]

Linda, I was typing before I saw your post. I will not try to remove them anymore, lol.

[murihikukid]

Hi Worth ...I have moved over to this thread but its going to take me a few days to read and then try and take everything in....Once I write this I am going over to pay for the bay window so once I get it home...if you do not mind ?I will take some photos of it and send them to yourself or somebody may be able to advise me how best to put it into my house....
Anyway back to lights...
Now first I will point out I cannot buy from North America due to the freight costs ...Last night I did an extensive search on ebay for LED listings and CFL....If i recall right you have written about Full Spectrum CFL's ...Well I did a search for these and 96% of what came up were USA listings and the 4% in Europe ....none from China so Full Spectrum lights were ruled out for me..
So should I buy LED or CFL ...I know lumen rating is a factor in both but a lot have a wattage with no lumen rating ....
Now I have purchased 6 + 1 and 3 + 1 light fittings from Chine purely because I think they offer the best options....I can mix the light bulbs and get the 6500K...5000K or the 3000K or whatever I want....I am fitting stainless steel Chinese hats reflectors on these which I am presently making....

My intentions are to hang one fitting above one plant and raising it with the plants height...this is because I had a problem with my T8 5 ft fluoro fittings positioning...(I actually have 9 LED Fluoro Tubes that as yet I have not tryed)

So its just about the right bulbs to use LED or CFL.....Once i get these I will retire the HPS and Mercury vapour Lights and of course summer will soon arrive here ....

Here are some links...For the fittings and an LED Light that interests me ??

Cheers Ron

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E27-E14-Led-Bulb-Lights-5731-SMD-220V-Light-Corn-Bulbs-Candle-Lamp-7-12-20-25W-/272312520370?var=&hash=item3f67174eb2:m:mNlcMYsgF7 JQj

http://www.ebay.com/itm/R6H1-The-new...oAAOSwawpXtvsL

http://www.ebay.com/itm/E27-E40-TO-3...8AAOSwvg9XW2D5

[Worth1]

I dont think the LED lights in the link are going to do you any good at all.

[schill93]

When evaluating the merit of using T5's as opposed to T8's or T12's, or CFL's, you have to weigh the benefits, which I don't think has been thoroughly discussed.

#1. I have heard that you use less electricity with T5 lights.

#2. I have heard that T5 lights lessen the need for hardening off your plants (would someone else comment on this?)

#3. I have heard, that your seedlings grow faster under T5 lights. (Do they grow stronger?)

I would invest the extra money gladly is #2 were true, but as I only heard it from one member, I would love more confirmation on any of the above.

[Cole_Robbie]

Hardening off is mostly about UV radiation, which is not in any indoor lights, other than tanning beds and a few specialty lights for certain pets.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by schill93

When evaluating the merit of using T5's as opposed to T8's or T12's, or CFL's, you have to weigh the benefits, which I don't think has been thoroughly discussed.

#1. I have heard that you use less electricity with T5 lights.

#2. I have heard that T5 lights lessen the need for hardening off your plants (would someone else comment on this?)

#3. I have heard, that your seedlings grow faster under T5 lights. (Do they grow stronger?)

I would invest the extra money gladly is #2 were true, but as I only heard it from one member, I would love more confirmation on any of the above.

Here are my thoughts on your comments in order the best I can.
#1. I have heard that you use less electricity with T5 lights.
Compared to what?
One of the problems is the confusion people have with the CFL and LED lights.
Here is an example.
Both brands many times will put something like 100W on the light to show what the equivalent wattage is of a regular incandescent light bulb.
The doesn't mean it draws 100 watts it will more than likely draw 27 watts LED's even less.
Many people think that watts is a measurement of electricity used well it is but it started out as a measurement of the amount of energy something puts out.
If you look hard enough you will find the amount of watts the noonday sun puts on one square foot.
Watts can also be converted to horsepower.
This is how to find the best motor in blenders.
So with that said when I look for lights I always look for the amount of watts and the color spectrum.
The lumens just happen to come with it.
Plants care nothing of lumens as they are a measurement for the human eye in a spectrum plants don't see.
This is were the LED lights come in great but make things even more confusing.

#2. I have heard that T5 lights lessen the need for hardening off your plants (would someone else comment on this?)

Depends on where the person lives I dont have to harden off as my plants come in and out of the house all of the time even in the winter.
I dont buy into it at all as Cole said it is the UV light they need.
Too many factors involved from different people to make a sound judgment on many things here.
An example is the vast amount of people I met in Alaska the proclaimed the the sun was stronger there.
This simply isn't true it is weaker.
Two things contribute to sun strength latitude and elevation.
The reason some of the folks thought it was stronger is because they get toasted every year in the beginning of summer.
They are in a lot of darkness in the winter.
They aren't used to any sun, they aren't hardened off.

#3. I have heard, that your seedlings grow faster under T5 lights. (Do they grow stronger?)

Again compared to what.
T5 lights are the best choice for many people and much better that the old stuff.
Fast growth also depends on the amount of light they are getting you cant call stretching for light fast growth.
If a person is using sticks to hold up 18 inch tomato plants they dont have enough light.


Here is my take on the lights.
If you can wire up fixtures and run wire.
If you know how to calculate wire size and understand wiring.
If you can build things and have a good imagination.
Then building frames for CFL lights are the way to go and you can make something that will knock the socks off just about anything out there for a good price.
The alternative is very expensive like the huge HPS and other types of lighting.
I looked into it and my needs didn't justify it.

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Hardening off is mostly about UV radiation, which is not in any indoor lights, other than tanning beds and a few specialty lights for certain pets.

Cole I think I have two UV lights here at the house for some reason.

[Cole_Robbie]

What are they? Lizard lights? I would really like to be able to harden off my indoor seedlings without having to take them outside. I can grow a beautiful-looking seedling, then set it out in the sun and it will wilt like it is dying within an hour.

[jtjmartin]

I've used the cheap T12s in Wisconsin and now in Virginia. In Wisconsin I used the fixtures with 4 bulbs. I get away using double bulb T12s in Virginia.

I make a temporary cold frame out of mulch bags and carry my seedlings a few feet out to it every day the temperature allows. On really sunny days, I cover the seedlings with extra window screens I have. After a run of cold weather when the seedlings haven't seen the sun in a while, I double or triple the screens.

The sun, wind, and movement produce some pretty thick plants.

cold frame.JPG

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

What are they? Lizard lights? I would really like to be able to harden off my indoor seedlings without having to take them outside. I can grow a beautiful-looking seedling, then set it out in the sun and it will wilt like it is dying within an hour.

I stand corrected they aren't UV lights just a blue grow light, I do have an IR light though.
It seems since they started using the UV lights to kill germs the price has skyrocketed.
Many of your arc type and florescent lights put it out but they have UV filter coatings on them.
There are so many wave lengths of UV light it is hard to know which one burns plants,
I would suspect it being in the UVB spectrum.

[Cole_Robbie]

Maybe I need one of these tanning lamps. This one is $319 on Amazon:

[dmforcier]

Originally Posted by schill93

When evaluating the merit of using T5's as opposed to T8's or T12's, or CFL's, you have to weigh the benefits, which I don't think has been thoroughly discussed.

#1. I have heard that you use less electricity with T5 lights.

#2. I have heard that T5 lights lessen the need for hardening off your plants (would someone else comment on this?)

#3. I have heard, that your seedlings grow faster under T5 lights. (Do they grow stronger?)

I would invest the extra money gladly is #2 were true, but as I only heard it from one member, I would love more confirmation on any of the above.

Some pretty good replies above. Here's my vote:

#0. Understand the terminology. The "T5" et al. standards refer to fixture and power supply formats. In general, all the lamps that are available for T5 are also available for the other formats.

#1. Yes more efficient, but T5 is only a little more efficient that T8 and generally more expensive. T8 is the sweet spot.

#2. Moose hockey. There's a lot more to hardening off than light intensity: heat, wind, temperature fluctuation, spectrum. Only way around it is to keep them inside.

#3. More moose hockey. Any difference between installations would be due to tubes/lamps, not the fixture format.

[schill93]

Originally Posted by dmforcier

Some pretty good replies above. Here's my vote:

#0. Understand the terminology. The "T5" et al. standards refer to fixture and power supply formats. In general, all the lamps that are available for T5 are also available for the other formats.

#1. Yes more efficient, but T5 is only a little more efficient that T8 and generally more expensive. T8 is the sweet spot.

#2. Moose hockey. There's a lot more to hardening off than light intensity: heat, wind, temperature fluctuation, spectrum. Only way around it is to keep them inside.

#3. More moose hockey. Any difference between installations would be due to tubes/lamps, not the fixture format.

dmforcier: Can you say you speak from experience owning both kinds? I have heard on the issue of #2 from two different people who have used both, that the hardening off with those under #5 was negligible, according to a poster on Tomatoville. Also a contributor on Dave's Garden did a side by side comparison and noted the same thing.

I am only trying to get at the facts, and hearing from some people who have used both types could hopefully share their own experience with this observation.

I do realize that the wind is another factor, but to some extent a fan blowing across the seedlings helps with this conditioning to some degree. Now temperature fluctuations is another matter. But don't you think it possible the more intense (and hot) light prepares them for the sun intensity more?