Good water vs Bad water ??

[dipchip2000]

At the risk of sounding totally stupid, I am going to ask anyway. Has anyone ever conducted a study on chemical composition of tap water. When the same variety is grown by different gardeners in different climates we seem to get varied opinions on the taste and quality of the fruits. Everyone gives credit for this to weather. I too believe weather must play a big part in a tomato being excellant flavor in one area and a complete spitter in others. While we always say that (your own taste may vary) I really doubt that taste can be that opposite. While we all grow in our own areas and water as needed in our own amended soils, it would seem that water is the main variable. Could some water have higher PH or lower PH and dissolved minerals,chlorine, or other chemicals in it that are not harmful to us to drink but enough to cause major differences in the taste of the fruit. Obviously the water in the mountains is different from the deserts and any water anywhere is going to absorb some elements from whatever rock or soil type it has filtered through.
Has anyone used rain water only or filtered water only and achieved good results on a consistant basis and with various varieties found to be spitters by others? I know how dumb this sounds but its 4degrees outside and Im just sitting here pondering what is probably a moot point anyway.
ron

[habitat_gardener]

One thing I've noticed is that the same variety can be spectacular one year and so-so another year, with the same water. It's possible it's the seeds, or some sort of cross happened, etc., etc. Many variables! So water may make a difference, but weather and soil and exposure (how much sun and from what direction) are other big factors.

My impression is that the two biggest factors are amount of water and amount of heat (within the proper range). Overwatered tomatoes are bland, and rainier seasons usually bring more diseases. Tomatoes grown where they don't get enough heat to mature or to set large fruits will have much lower production.

You could probably look into hydroponic growers to see if the quality of the water makes a difference. All those winter tomatoes...

[rnewste]

Ron,

There was an excellent Thread last year regarding the chemicals in Tap Water, and how to attempt to remove them via filtration. Here is the Link:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthrea...light=chlorine

Briefly put, it is not Chlorine that one generally needs to be concerned about, but a chemical typically added today by Municipal Water Systems called Chloramine, which is now used instead of Chlorine. "Dice" and several others had excellent information that they contributed to this Thread.

Last Season, I had purchased an in-line filter for my Automated Watering System that feeds 30 EarthTainers without my intervention. Other "priorities" prevented me from installing it, and its effect midway through the growing Season would not have provided conclusive results on its effectiveness, but this 2010 Season, I am definitely installing it at the head-end water supply.

This is the condition that I am trying to avoid; Mineral buildup in the water reservoir that is apparent around the overflow hole:



My research found that most water filters do not actually filter out chloramine. The people at Watts Filter confirmed that this particular model does filter out significant amounts of Chloramine. They cautioned however, that the normal 5 Year service life (20,000 gallons) may be reduced.



As I am ONLY using the filter in-line for my 30 'Tainers, the actual gallons per month flow should be a lot less than for whole home filtration use.

Also, there are TWO Watts Filtration Companies to further confuse the consumer, when doing a Web search. The one you want is based in Phoenix, AZ, not the Watts based in Andover, MA. Use this web link: www.wattspremire.com.

The Model I found to be most appropriate is: Model P-55/50, and I recall I paid about $25.00 for it.

I am sure this is a longer answer than you were looking for, but hopefully, it will quickly get to the heart of the issue.

Raybo

[rnewste]

Here is the direct link to the P-55/50.

https://www.wattspremier.com/product...e-Maker-Filter

Seems if you do a Search on their Website using this part number, nothing is displayed. I had to search under "Ice Maker Filter" to find it again.

Guess the price has increased a bit to now $32.00.

Raybo

[dipchip2000]

The answer still leaves me with the question(will it make a difference?) If any or all of the contributors to this thread will list one or two varieties that they consider to be real spitters we can get a total vote and I will grow out the top three and use only rain water or filtered water to grow them. Yeah I know its not very scientific but it would be an interesting project and I and maybe others could take part and see if any of them taste differently better. Just an idea but maybe not a good one.
ron

[rnewste]

Ron,

Your suggestion to grow the identical varieties with Tap Water, and also a parallel Control Group with rainwater is excellent! My "problem" is that we do not get any rain here from May through October, so I personally could not participate in this type of experiment.

My filter approach was the best I could come up with to see if removal of Chloramine would positively impact plant health, and tomato taste. But without an A/B comparison, my results will be purely subjective.

Raybo

[cdbva]

It occurs to me that rain water must itself be variable. Judging by the black tinge of my roof, it looks as if we get plenty of the local pollution along with the rain. Or maybe it just settles by itself. And depending on the winds, no doubt everything else in the atmosphere shows up as well from time to time -- volcanic ash, industrial smoke, and anything else the wind happens to scoop up and re-deposit.

Christine

[dipchip2000]

Raybo

After reading all the previous threads and links you provided I found the discussion had finally run its course. I didnt know the subject had been so thourghly discussed. While I am not totally satisfied I will use the filter to water my tomatoes and hope for the best. Hopefully someday there will be more information
and possibly better ways to circumvent these chemical contaminates that I still feel has to impact health and flavor of fruit.
Thanks for the discussion
ron

[pete]

I use only rain water as it is the softest, purest water in nature. I collect and store 2000 gallons every spring and use soaker hoses to water when needed- don't be afraid to let them wilt a little in the afternoon heat.

I have used tap water, treated to kill microbes that all of us are trying to maintain in our 'fertile' soil, and do notice a difference in plant vigor.

Think about it-- the water is treated to keep microbes from growing-- why put that in soil with microbes that you are trying to keep healthy???

I have been very successful in flavor contests with my toms and believe it is due to rain water usage. I have tried creek water also, but think rain is the best water.

I guess it depends on where you live and each water source- my buddy has a well and uses well water-not as good as rain water. Well water in our area is very, very hard.

I think your question is very good and may be something a lot of us overlook!!!

Pete

<a href="http://s427.photobucket.com/albums/p...t=IMG_4630.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/p...t/IMG_4630.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

[dipchip2000]

Pete

Very impressive setup. Where did you get the plans or schematic to set up the water storage tanks? I definitely believe that your using rainwater exclusively to grow the tomatoes would surely have a good impact on flavor and health of the plants. Do you use a moisture meter or what to determine when or how much water to give the plants? I too think that a little wilting in the afternoon will have no effect on plants or fruit, mine have always come back beautiful by next morning.
Once again great setup.
ron

[pete]

The set-up is just some industrial shelving that just so happened to fit 3 tanks perfectly. My buddy was going to take it to the scrap yard so he just gave me the shelving. Each shelf holds 6000 pounds, so I had to put 1 -300 gallon tank in the middle (300X8=2400#) and 2 on the side on the lower shelf, 4800#. The tanks are bulk tanks from the local farm supplier, they had molasses in them which won't hurt any plants (maybe thats why my toms are sooo sweet!!).

I'm still working on the compost drums on the bottom. They will be battery powered using old wheel chair motors to turn gears I got at the scrap yard. The drums are really too small, but they were freebies so I used them.

I water as little as possible, and when I do I use 50-100 gallons per 50' soaker hose-12 plants, 1 every 4'.

Hope that helps ya out, Pete

[Barbee]

I dont water my tomatoes. They get a drink at plant out time and the rest is up to Mother Nature. So I guess that would make them watered with rain water only.

The seedlings get watered with well water when they are still in pots. The Black Cherry I keep on the deck in a pot gets watered with well water.

[habitat_gardener]

Two or three years ago at the community garden, I grew Pink Ping Pong in my plot, and someone else grew it about 60 ft. away. We got the plants from the same source -- a local nursery. The main difference was that her plant was very heavily mulched (4 inches at least) and she watered heavily at least twice a week, and my plant was lightly mulched (half an inch to an inch) and I watered every 5-12 days. We get no summer rain. Same municipal water supply with chloramine. Both fertilized only with homemade compost. It's possible my plot got less sun than hers, but it got at least 6 hours of direct sun.

Result: her tomatoes were prolific with dense foliage, and she was always giving them away. She claimed they tasted "like peanut butter"! I tried some one day when I helped pick, and they did have an off taste, but were mostly bland. I was offered some and didn't want them. They were also bigger than my fruits.

My plant didn't produce a lot, and the foliage was quite sparse, but the fruits had sweetness and intensity -- no hint of blandness or peanut butter. I enjoyed every one.

The fruits were so different that I asked if she was sure hers was PPP, and she claimed it was. I think I probably looked for the plant tag, too.

So if you do a water-quality trial, it'd be fun to try different watering schedules and amount of mulching on at least 2 plants of the same variety to see the differences.

[amideutch]

dipchip, either get your water tested or do it yourself. Point is if you don't want to use it for your plants why are you drinking it and washing yourself, clothes, cookware etc. in it. I grow Kombucha cultures which is a living organism and have to be careful as to the quality of water I use to make the tea mixture that it grows in. I bought a test kit for about $30.00 that tested everything from ph, copper, insecticide, chlorine you name it. We are lucky here in Germany as our water is very good which the tests indicated, so I've been growing my cultures and tomatoes using tap water for the last 10 years. And just because water comes from a well doesn't mean it's pure. Known a couple folks that found out the hard way. So do youlself a favor and have your water tested and even if you might be able to get it from your municipal water supplier remember it has to run through pipes to get to your house and can get leaching from the metal pipes. So use the water out of your tap to have tested. Ami

[dipchip2000]

Ami

Dont know why I didnt think of it before but my son in Tulsa is a swimming pool tech and can test my water for about 30 different trace elements as well as PH. He is bringing his test kit down next saturday and will test my tap water.If necessary I will go with the inline filter to use for watering tomatoes. Im still going to run some side by side experiments with various varieties to see if differences do occur in vigor and flavor. Starting to run into a lot of work but must admit most enjoyable work in a long time.
thanks to all for suggestions and observations
ron