IND Rutgers sources

[jeffinjonestown]

Just in from counting and logging my unripe maters. I noticed that seed obtained from Burpees some years ago and listed by them at the time as Rutgers and indeterminate definitely is NOT the indeterminate variety. It is bushier than any Rutgers plant I have ever seen. To make matters worse, two indeterminates from two other sources that really do both look indeterminate do not match. The fruit on one is much smaller at first blushing than the other, and the leaves are very different. One has more of a finger on each leaf while the other's leaves have many ridges along the entire leaf and are perfectly symmetrical.

Does anyone know of a vendor that you can confirm is selling seed of the indeterminate version that I think pre dated the usual determinates?

Thank you.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by jeffinjonestown

Just in from counting and logging my unripe maters. I noticed that seed obtained from Burpees some years ago and listed by them at the time as Rutgers and indeterminate definitely is NOT the indeterminate variety. It is bushier than any Rutgers plant I have ever seen. To make matters worse, two indeterminates from two other sources that really do both look indeterminate do not match. The fruit on one is much smaller at first blushing than the other, and the leaves are very different. One has more of a finger on each leaf while the other's leaves have many ridges along the entire leaf and are perfectly symmetrical.

Does anyone know of a vendor that you can confirm is selling seed of the indeterminate version that I think pre dated the usual determinates?

Thank you.

Rutgers as an indet was released in 1928 and then in about 1931 the new call it what you want, det, semi-indet, semi-det version was released.

And that's the one that I knew as a kid on the farm in the 40's.And that's the one that folks have been growing forever. In the SSE YEarbook there are about 8 strains of it that are listed.

It's said that Fedco has an indet Rutgers, so you might want to contact them and confirm that. If what they have has any VFN's bred in then you know it isn't the original since the original had no genes bred in for any tolerances.

[jeffinjonestown]

Maybe it's the fact that there are so many strains listed accounts for my 3 plants all looking different. I just really wanted to grow an original to see what it is like compared to the ones I had grown and figured the indet description rather than the semi or det description would signify that it was the earlier release you pointed out.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by jeffinjonestown

Maybe it's the fact that there are so many strains listed accounts for my 3 plants all looking different. I just really wanted to grow an original to see what it is like compared to the ones I had grown and figured the indet description rather than the semi or det description would signify that it was the earlier release you pointed out.

But whatever strain it might be the seeds would be of that strain sold in a pack so I can't see how that could account for three plants all looking different.

What was said on the seed pack, anything like Rutgers VN, or Rutgers VFN, or anything lilke that?

[jeffinjonestown]

Actually it makes sense. I grew from seeds from three different sources. One was Burpee, which lists their Rutgers as indet. The other two I bought online and came in plastic. I don't think any of their descriptions specified the resistances, but I'll check if I stillhave the Burpee packet.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by jeffinjonestown

Actually it makes sense. I grew from seeds from three different sources. One was Burpee, which lists their Rutgers as indet. The other two I bought online and came in plastic. I don't think any of their descriptions specified the resistances, but I'll check if I stillhave the Burpee packet.

OK, I'm a bit confused here.

In your first post I thought you said that the Burpee one wasn't indet even tho I guess they say it should be. Do they say that in their current description for 2010? Or only when you bought the seeds, not this year.

And the other two you bought as indet but are you saying they are or are not indeterminate, I think yes, and why are you concluding they aren't Rutgers?

The question about an indet Rutgers has been asked before and through the years and the only place that different folks have IDed as having an indet one is Fedco and yet you have two indet ones and neither is from Fedco. Right?

Subtle differences in leaf form shouldn't be the defining ID of Rutgers, it should be the size and shape of the fruits as I see it.

[jeffinjonestown]

No Carolyn. Read it again please. The Burpee is still described as indet. The other two are in fact growing as indets but are different from each other. I will try to get some from fedco for next year.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by jeffinjonestown

No Carolyn. Read it again please. The Burpee is still described as indet. The other two are in fact growing as indets but are different from each other. I will try to get some from fedco for next year.

and that's what I'd asked you above as in;

In your first post I thought you said that the Burpee one wasn't indet even tho I guess they say it should be. Do they say that in their current description for 2010? Or only when you bought the seeds, not this year.

So I was asking if the current Rutgers offered by Burpee was indet and you just answered that.

And I'd also asked you if there was any difference in the fruits for those other two indet Rutgers other than the foliage difference you mentioned.

In other words why are you concluding that they aren't an indet Rutgers?

[jeffinjonestown]

Sorry if I sounded terse - I'm doing this from my phone and it isn't easy to teach a middle ager to type with thumbs on tiny keys. I thought I mentioned - or meant to - that the fruit on one is blushing at smaller sizes than the other. Also the larger fruited one has more sections and is a little more flattened than the other. The Burpee description on the pack does say indet and so does their online listing now.

I am not really concluding that neither is an indet Rutgers. I just have my doubts about both of them being true to that type in light of the differences in leaves and the fruit and therefore wanted to know where I could be sure to obtain the indert release.

Interestingly, the older Burpee packet is just white with green writing and graphics and does not specify the disease resistance letters at all.

[dice]

http://www.vermontbean.com/dp.asp?c=131&P={E8B03C20-293E-4446-8751-7DAC9202DD76}

(Claimed to be indeterminate. I have not grown these seeds
from this vendor. That URL should probably be all one line
in a web browser's address box, by the way.)

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by dice

http://www.vermontbean.com/dp.asp?c=131&P={E8B03C20-293E-4446-8751-7DAC9202DD76}

(Claimed to be indeterminate. I have not grown these seeds
from this vendor. That URL should probably be all one line
in a web browser's address box, by the way.)

http://www.vermontbean.com/dp.asp?c=...1-7DAC9202DD76}

Vermont Bean was one of the stable of companies that were owned by Wayne Hilton that were sold to Jung Seeds several years ago.

If you look on the left hand side of the opening page you'll see all the companies that Jung's now owns so what varieties are in one catalog are also found in the others, so Jung's itself, Totally Tomatoes and Shumways should all have the same Rutgers except different ones of those companies don't have the full completment of varieties as does Totally Tomatoes.

I didn't check TT to see if they say their Rutgers is indet or not.

I did just look at the 2010 SSE Yearbook and several folks are listing a Rutgers that they say is indet, more likely a compact indet and I think that Tania's Rutgers page is pretty good:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Rutgers

I think one of the problems is that some folks don't distinguish well between some determinates and some indeterminates, meaning, not all look for the traits expected like terminal (det) vs subterminal ( indet) blossom clusters, etc., and rely more on perhaps how "big" a plant is , for instance.

[Tomatovator]

Jeff, I know I have at least 2 packs of Rutgers that are unopened and listed as Indeterminate. I will not grow them all (if any). If you want a pack PM me your address and I'll send you one.

[dice]

Totally Tomatoes version:
http://www.totallytomato.com/dp.asp?c=39&P={06DC7847-B149-44BA-9384-56CD5487BB3F}

This one says "indeterminate", too, but it also lists a handful
of disease tolerances, so maybe it is really one of the
determinate or semi-determinate Rutgers versions, and it
is probably the same one listed by Vermont Bean and Seed.

TGS lists "Rutgers VFA" as determinate, while they list
"Rutgers Select" as indeterminate.

I seem to remember Feldon reporting on positive results he got
from an indeterminate Rutgers plant a couple of years ago,
seeds from an SSE member maybe.