Indian Stripe

[travis]

Here's a photo of the first truss on an Indian Stripe. It may be related to Cherokee Purple, but it sure sets fruit a lot earlier and heavier. The focus is a little close ... those tomatoes are about 8 inches off the ground.




Here's a photo of first blush on an Indian Stripe. This is the first color of the season on any tomato in the garden I put out behind a friend's construction shop on April 9, 2006.



The other tomatoes in the same garden are Wisconsin 55 Gold, Aunt Ruby's German Green, A. Lincoln, Djena Lee Indian Girl, Ramapo F5, Cherokee Green, Silvery Fir Tree, Earl's Faux, Lucky Strike RL, Big Boy, Better Boy, FM 785, Heartland, Brandy Boy F2, Brandy Boy F3, Pixie Peach, and an assortment of Long Island Seed Project dwarves. All were planted the same weekend. All have green tomatoes in various stages of size. Not one single other tomato has shown color besides the Indian Stripe.

The only other ripe tomatoes I've picked are Husky Red Cherry and a freak Early Girl PL (unknown variant), and those were at my home garden. So, I'm sayin' Indian Stripe is surprisingly early.

PV

[carolyn137]

So, I'm sayin' Indian Stripe is surprisingly early.

And I'm not disagreeing at all.

Too bad you aren't growing Cherokee Purple so you can see the other minor differences that both Craig and I saw with this variety that I got from Donna Nelson who brought back and gave me the seeds from Arkansas where it was known as Indian Stripe and Indian Zebra.

As I've said several times, I find it interesting that this variety, grown in isolation from the Cherokee Purple that Craig got from John Green in TN, nearby, evolved slightly differently through the years.

Same great taste, though.

[travis]

"Too bad you aren't growing Cherokee Purple so you can see the other minor differences that both Craig and I saw with this variety ..." [Carolyn]

I have grown Cherokee Purple three seasons prior in a row and probably will be able to recall the similarities and detect some of the differences.

As I've been saying since I put it in the ground this spring, Indian Stripe exhibits earlier growth, flowering, and now ripening characteristics than Cherokee Purple. I know the Indian Stripes I have in the ground would be far outpacing any Cherokee Purples I've ever grown. CP was 10 days behind Black Krim last year and didn't produce a ripe tomato until late July (when I was only about 2 weeks behind this year's plant out date). That to me is a major difference.

I am growing, as I said, Cherokee Green alongside Indian Stripe ... so at least I'll be able to make direct comparisons in that regard.

Bottom line ... if Indian Stripe compares closely with Cherokee Purple with regard to taste, yet provides earlier, greater, and longer yields, I doubt I'll ever again take the opportunity to grow CP as a comparison.

PV

[moucheur]

Papa Vic, are yours actually striped? Carolyn sent me some IS seed last year, which grew out fruits that were a uniform purplish dusky rose color. I'm wondering if mine were within the normal variation, or if they were possible crossed.

[nctomatoman]

I've seen no stripes on Indian Stripe - and though the same color as Cherokee Purple in my garden, it is a bit smaller, sets fruit in clusters with more fruit, and is not quite as flavorful. It is a very good variety, but it won't replace ChP in my gardens.

[travis]

"Papa Vic, are yours actually striped?" [Moucheur]

Moucheur,

You can see the extent of color and striation that appears so far in the pictures which were taken Tuesday, June 10, 2006. I have not seen a dead ripe or even advanced vine ripe tomato yet, so I don't know how long the striations remain pronounced. So far, the streaks look like they're gonna be more pronounced when the tomato is green. But really it's too soon to tell conclusively.

Like Carolyn said, it's too bad I didn't plant at least one Cherokee Purple so I could make a comparison regarding color and patterns. But last year, for example, many of my Cherokee Purples had zippers which is something associated with the flowers leaving a scar along the outside of the skin.

And I have not really noticed the Cherokee Purples in my past gardens having the degree of dark green streaking bleeding down from the shoulders like the Indian Stripe does in the first picture posted above.

Also, take a look the narrow streaks in the second picture on the blushing tomato. I don't remember Cherokee Purple having that kind of streaking all the way to the blossom end other than associated with zipper scars which usually appeared no more than one per tomato on less than half the fruit.

Another thing about this Indian Stripe, so far, is it has smaller blossom end scars and more uniform fruit shapes than past CPs ... so far ... it's really too early to tell that much.

I'll post some more pictures probably in July of ripe fruit if they make it. I have 8 plants left ... I pulled out three that were weak sisters or that looked a little wilty. One plant is at home in about 7 hours sun. The other 7 plants are in full sun (12 hours right now). I hope to be able to show how the "stripes" appear (or don't).

PV

[travis]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

I've seen no stripes on Indian Stripe - and though the same color as Cherokee Purple in my garden, it is a bit smaller, sets fruit in clusters with more fruit, and is not quite as flavorful. It is a very good variety, but it won't replace ChP in my gardens.

The stripes do fade some as the tomato ripens.

Here are a few photos to show the stripes on one of the tomatoes I picked a little early and let ripen indoors over a few days' time ...











Other than the distinct "stripes," it is a lot like Cherokee Purple ... although to me, the shoulders look a little "browner."

PV

[Rena]

very purdy!

[carolyn137]

PV, what you show re stripes is exactly what I've seen with Indian Stripe unripe fruits and so the two names by which it was known in that area, Indian Stripe and Indian Zebra, seem reasonable to me.

I also occasionally see the same kind of striping on unripe fruits of Cherokee Purple.

[travis]

Originally Posted by nctomatoman

I've seen no stripes on Indian Stripe - and though the same color as Cherokee Purple in my garden, it is a bit smaller, sets fruit in clusters with more fruit, and is not quite as flavorful. It is a very good variety, but it won't replace ChP in my gardens.

I posted pictures aways above in this thread to show distinct stripes in Indian Stripe. Now I have another plant ripening fruit without any noticable stripes. It looks a lot more like a typical Cherokee Purple as Craig says, except it has just a little more reddish brown hue to it than my CPs over the three summers past.

Here's some photos of the Stripeless Indian first from the side view:



Then the blossom end view:



And now the stem end view where you can see it still has a day or two to ripen:



I planted 10 Indian Stripe seedlings. I took out two that weren't growing very well. Of those 8 remaining, one makes the striped fruit shown in the photos up the page aways; one makes the stripeless fruit shown in the photos in this post; one makes uniformly red fruit with distinctly yellow skin and no stripes whatsoever. The others haven't made ripe fruit yet ... so it remains to be seen.

I got the seeds from Victory. Apparently there is some variation in their Indian Stripes. I love it. No complaints.

PV

[carolyn137]

PV,

I'm not so sure why the variation with Indian Stripe as you've just mentioned.

From the original seeds I got from Donna Nelson and my saved seeds I've been offering in my SSE listing I've seen only the faint stripes kind on almost ripe fruits.

But then I sent original seeds to Craig and he says no stripes at all.

But this isn't the first time that Craig and I have grown the same variety and he gets something slightly different. ARGG is a case in point as is Green Giant.

[Glenn 50]

Gudday Carolyn...Good to see you're getting back into things again. Best wishes.
Craigs seed down here produced beautiful stripeless fruit.
Darn nice tho!
Glenn

[barkeater]

Sorry to digress, but many have posted they are growing F5 Ramapo. You are growing F4 Ramapo if you got the seeds from me, which were F3's when I got them from Carolyn last year, and F4's from the saved seed. They will be F5's when you save seeds from this year's fruit.

[travis]

Originally Posted by barkeater

Sorry to digress, but many have posted they are growing F5 Ramapo. You are growing F4 Ramapo if you got the seeds from me, which were F3's when I got them from Carolyn last year, and F4's from the saved seed. They will be F5's when you save seeds from this year's fruit.

Okay, let's clear this up once and for all, please. First of all, Ramapo F1 seeds are those seeds that Harris sent out from their original breeding program where they collected seeds from a crossed line, right? Those are F1 seeds and when you plant them that's an F1 plant with F1 fruit hangin' on it, right? But the seeds inside that F1 fruit are F2 seeds and will grow an F2 plant the following season, right? Okay ...

Carolyn has stated many times that she "stablized Ramapo at F3." Did she mean by that that she was able to get stable qualities after growing out Ramapo for two subsequent seasons ... that is ... did she save seeds from an F1 fruit, plant those F2 seeds, grow an F2 generation, save seeds from the F2 fruit, which would be F3 seeds, then plant those F3 seeds and found the F3 plant and fruit to be stable?

If so, then she saved the seeds from F3 fruit and sent them to you, right? If so, then those were F4 seeds and you grew F4 plants and fruit and saved seeds from them, right?

Okay, if that's the way it went, and you saved seeds from F4 fruit planted from seeds out of an F3 tomato from Carolyn's garden, then those seeds you saved from an F4 tomato are F5 seeds and will produce F5 plants and fruit, right? Is that the seed you sent out ... F5 seed from the F4 generation plant/fruit?

If so, then I'm growing F5 Ramapo and the seeds inside these tomatoes are F6 seeds and will grow F6 plants next year.

Is this the sequence that happened?

PV

[carolyn137]

PV,

Let me clarify what I can clarify.

Harris did not breed Ramapo F1, Rutgers Univeristy did. Harris was one vendor and TGS also sold it until seed production stopped.

I originally received 6 plants of F1 Ramapo from a friend in NJ, and saved seeds from those, the F2 seeds. I sowed some the next year and got some plants that had fruit that were like Ramapo and some that weren't.

In the meantime I had made contact with two folks at Rutgers and learned that Ramapo F1, similar to many of the earliest hybrids, had but two parents.

So I saved F2 seeds from the F1 fruits from the F1 plants.

The F2 plant out was almost all Ramapo looking, but not entirely.

I saved seed from the Ramapo looking ones from the F2 growout , now the F3 seed. And for this growout I was able to obtain some F1 Ramapo seed and grew some out to compare with my selection.

I sent out both F2 and F3 seed in two consecutive years with my seed offers at GW to different folks.

I think Barkeater got both F2 and F3 seed b'c I seem to remember he had some trouble germinating one of them, but he can clarify that for you.

If he grew the F2's he saved seed and sent out the F3's.

If he grew out the F3's and saved seed he sent out the F4's.

What I do know is that he had grown Ramapo F1 in NJ when he was there and said that my selection was what he remembered for Ramapo.

We also grew Ramapo F1 on the farm and indeed it was what I and my brother remembered b'c I gave plants to my brother as well.

So I can clarify some things but Bark is going to have to tell you which seeds he sent out, either the F3 or the F4.