Results of Losing Roots When Potted

[flyingbrass]

I started my seeds Jan. 1, and potted into Solo cups on Jan. 19. The Sophie's Choice seeds were stuck together in pairs when I planted. They all sprouted, so I had pairs of plants with stems growing right next to each other.

Figuring I wouldn't be able to separate their roots without harming all the plants, I snipped away one of the twins with scissors. Instead of throwing the cut ones away, I stuck 2 in potting soil to see if they might live. They were completely rootless. I know older plants easily grow new roots, but I was doubtful about such young seedlings.

Attached is a picture taken on Feb. 5. Top center is the experimental cup. Far left and bottom right are two of the unsnipped Sophie's Choice plants.

Seems losing roots put them, just guessing, around 2 weeks behind their siblings, but obviously they are alive and doing well. I'm surprised.

[RayR]

If you've got the space to spare, you can always experiment. In general, you always want to keep the strongest, stocky seedlings with the healthiest root systems. Those are the plants that are going to produce, the rest are probably not worth saving. Aside from the experimental cup, the others are looking good so far.

[flyingbrass]

Yeah, completely losing or maybe even severely damaging roots of such young plants doesn't make sense from a production standpoint.

I'll try to compare a Sophie's Choice plant that lost roots during initial potting with one that didn't by using identical pots and soil, water and fertilize the same, keep in the same location, etc. An Earthtainer style setup would probably work better than ordinary pots, but I can't afford to experiment with those right now. Fencing and other matierals for my newly-expanded garden area have a higher priority.

[ContainerTed]

What you did when you clipped those, was to put the plants back into the "I need a root base" mode. The little guys then took a couple of weeks off the "I need to get larger" schedule to grow those roots. The fact that you are "two for two" in starting clippings speaks well to the overal health and vigor of your seedlings.

One of the reasons I plant deeply when transplanting, is that all of those little "hairs" on the stems have the potential of becoming new roots. Planting deeply increases the overall size of the root system.

Ted

[bcday]

Originally Posted by ContainerTed

...all of those little "hairs" on the stems have the potential of becoming new roots.

The little hairs on the stem serve a different function and will never become roots. Any roots that grow along the stem arise from root primordia which first appear as little green bumps on the plant stem. If humidity and other conditions are favorable, a thick white root will emerge and grow from the bump.
http://www.bonnieplants.com/Portals/...m-bumps-lg.jpg
http://tomatolover.com/blog/wp-conte...te-bumps-1.png

[rxkeith]

several years ago when craig was doing his old seed offers, i had one mcclintock plant sprout. i accidently pulled the roots off transplanting it. there wasn't really much of anything left at the root end. i thought oh no i killed it. i potted it up any way, nothing to lose trying. it grew just fine, barely sulked. i kept the soil moist, not overly so, and the plants were growing in my cool calumet basement. temps in the low to mid 60s.
little plants want to grow


keith

[ContainerTed]

Originally Posted by bcday

The little hairs on the stem serve a different function and will never become roots. Any roots that grow along the stem arise from root primordia which first appear as little green bumps on the plant stem. If humidity and other conditions are favorable, a thick white root will emerge and grow from the bump.
http://www.bonnieplants.com/Portals/...m-bumps-lg.jpg
http://tomatolover.com/blog/wp-conte...te-bumps-1.png

For the most part, those "bumps" don't show up on 8 inch seedling stems. So, differentiating between where a hair is and where a primordia bump will develop is next to impossible to determine.

One of the functions of the hairs (trichromes) is to raise the humidity level around the plant. One of the known sparks that kicks off primordia root growth on stems is higher humidity. I see a "potential" connection there. After using BING to look up "tomato stem hairs", the following points stood out to me:

==========================
Researchers in the US have been studying those hairs, called glandular trichomes, in hopes of learning more about human disease resistance.
They revealed their findings at a major biotechnology conference in Canberra, Australia.

“Trichomes create the pungent aroma of ripe tomato and they are also biochemical factories of defensive compounds that deter insect pests and invading pathogens,” Professor Rob Last, a geneticist at Michigan State University, said.
=============================
These are called trichomes, and they have different purposes on different plants. One advantage of trichomes is to maintain higher humidity around the plant.
=============================
Tomato plants can grow roots anywhere along their stems when conditions are right. "All those hairs on the tomato stem are potential roots," Theresa Beaver writes in "Outwitting the Picky Tomato Plant." A tomato plant with more roots can provide more nourishment to its top.
=============================

Now, I'm not advocating that Ms. Beaver is correct, but at least there are two people who agree with the term "potential". I am also not saying that trichromes automatically become primordia. I didn't want to write a long complex technical answer to the original post, but I did want to encourage the person to trust the fact that a stem will generate new roots if stuck into the growing medium. And, in the end, chances are pretty good that a small percentage of the primordia will inevitably have a hair on them until placed under the soil, where the hairs usually are lost as the root system expands.

Just wanted you to know my thoughts about this subject.

Ted

[husker nana]

Flyingbrass -
I spent last night watching the video's by nctomatoman. It is the first sticky on the starting from seed page. It has video and his dense planting style and potting up and speaks of root lost while he is potting up. Not a problem. He sure make it look easy and fast. I wonder if he was ever employed as a Time Study person. His video's have given me a guide as to how to simplify my own so called style.

[flyingbrass]

Thanks for the sticky mention, hucker. I had overlooked those excellent videos.

Today was planting day. Well, it was supposed to be. I spent all my available time digging out Bermuda grass roots (always fun) and putting in some old 2x4's to define my newly expanded garden space against the block fence.

I'm planning to put 12 tomato plants against the fence spaced 30" apart, using 6 20" Texas Tomato cages and twine or light rope (not sure what kind yet) between the TT cages. I'll add a few rebar stakes for additional support. It will be interesting to see how this goes.

I pulled my hair out debating what to use for support. That is best left to another thread.

Here is a crop of a picture I took today showing the Sophie's Choice clan. The no-root seedlings (front) aren't quite caught up to the ones potted with intact roots, but they are close. I'm not very impressed with growth of all of my plants. I think they should have done better even given the relatively cool temps. I encountered issues early on with leaves (always the oldest) drying around the tips after watering. Along with some yellowing/browning, again only of the oldest leaves. This is my first time starting from seed, so I'm not sure what was going on. I don't like the Summer Winds potting soil I used when potting to cups. It seems too dense and retains too much moisture.

Today I potted one Sophie's Choice into a 6ish gallon pot (Miracle Grow potting soil), and planted 4 plants of the other tomato varieties along my east-facing fence. Tomorrow I'll get the rest in the ground.

I think for the rest of the Sophie's, I'll pot another one or maybe two, and stick the rest in my existing garden bed. They shouldn't grow very tall.

Now to figure out where to plant my 24 pepper plants...