Teeny Tiny seedlings

tam91 · March 23, 2011

I have one variety that didn't germinate real well. I had three, but one got brown and crispy, and died. The other two have survived, but are very very teeny tiny compared to my other varieties. Practically miniscule.

Do these guys have a chance, or do you think something is really wrong?

**carolyn137** · March 23, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by tam91

I have one variety that didn't germinate real well. I had three, but one got brown and crispy, and died. The other two have survived, but are very very teeny tiny compared to my other varieties. Practically miniscule.

Do these guys have a chance, or do you think something is really wrong?

What does teeny tiny translate out to in inches tall?

Any idea why the one turned brown and crispy and if so why?

Keep an eye on the other two, well, you can use both eyes, LOL, but there's a chance that the seeds you sowed for this variety had one or more systemic disease pathogens adhering to the seed coat and that's why one died and the other two are not happy.

Just a gentle suggestion since I assume all the other seeds you sowed did well and you have healthy seedlings.

shlacm · March 23, 2011

I really don't don't have much in the way of actual experience... but this year I have started something like 80 varieties and several of those varieties had "teeny tiny" seeds, which naturally (I assume) resulted in "teeny tiny" seedlings... which will surely catch up with the others size-wise as they are all indeterminates that get very large and vigorous (think: Matt's Wild Cherry!).

tam91 · March 23, 2011

I was wondering if there might be some sort of disease. I do not know why the plant died, it was so young when it died.

I'll try to get a couple pictures.

The tiny plants have the same number of leaves, I think, as the other varieties, just in miniature.

And yes, other than a couple varieties with poor germination, my other seedlings are all healthy and happy looking.

These were not small seeds, and are not a small plant variety.

I'll go try to get some pictures.

**carolyn137** · March 23, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by tam91

I was wondering if there might be some sort of disease. I do not know why the plant died, it was so young when it died.

I'll try to get a couple pictures.

The tiny plants have the same number of leaves, I think, as the other varieties, just in miniature.

And yes, other than a couple varieties with poor germination, my other seedlings are all healthy and happy looking.

These were not small seeds, and are not a small plant variety.

I'll go try to get some pictures.

I don't think that pictures are going to help. I think it's best just to assume that since your other varieties were OK that to assume the seeds did have some bad guys attached to the seed coat is reasonable.

If there are any other seedlings of any other varieties near the ones you're talking about I'd get them out of the sowing mix now before any possible pathogens could spread through that mix.

**carolyn137** · March 23, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by shlacm

I really don't don't have much in the way of actual experience... but this year I have started something like 80 varieties and several of those varieties had "teeny tiny" seeds, which naturally (I assume) resulted in "teeny tiny" seedlings... which will surely catch up with the others size-wise as they are all indeterminates that get very large and vigorous (think: Matt's Wild Cherry!).

There really is no good correlation with seed size and the resultant seedling or mature plant size.

Many cherries have very small seeds as do most heart varieties and also many paste varieties, and they are indet and have large plants as well, and seedlings that aren't all that different from what you'd see with larger seeds.

tam91 · March 23, 2011

ok, here's a photo. These were planted on 3/2, and all emerged around the same time. There may be a little discoloration on the edges, I'm afraid this variety isn't going to do well. Bummer, as it is kind of a special one. I have it sort of segregated at the moment - but it's close to my others. Any advice?

The "bad" one is on the left, the one on the right is a healthy one for comparison.

I have since moved them apart.

tam91 · March 23, 2011

Oops, the posts crossed - Carolyn, you posted while I was busy loading up the photo.

I do have the plants out of the seedling tray and into separate pots. At the moment, the two suspect plants are not directly next to any others.

Can I safely presume that pathogens won't have an airborne spread? i.e., if nothing touches, it should be ok?

ddsack · March 25, 2011

Tam, I occasionally have had those teeny tiny seedlings come up. Usually they tend to be late sprouters that appear a week or even two after the others in the cell are up. I try to separate them from the larger plants as soon as I can, because it's my feeling that there is some hormone or clue from the roots of the larger seedlings that may stunt them permanently if they sit there too long - sort of like an "occupied - no room here, don't bother trying to grow, loser! " Sometimes they will take off and eventually size up, other times they just sit for weeks and are still too small at planting out time. The ones I am talking about always appear green and healthy, just don't want to grow up and out. I've never figured out how much is maybe just being a faulty genetic runt, environmental stress, or maybe something disease related, but nothing has ever spread to the healthy surrounding seedlings, in my experience.
Since you say some of yours dried up and died, there must have been more involved there than just the small size.

tam91 · March 25, 2011

These came up at the same time as the other varieties.

The three of this variety that did come up had a row to themselves - so no other plants to compete with. One died, and these other two are staying tiney.

I have them kind of apart from my others, I guess I'll see what they do.

tam91 · June 17, 2011

Well that tiny seedling just sat around for ages. And stayed tiny. It was an inch or two tall, where the other plants were up to 12". But I kept it kind of segregated, didn't have the heart to kill it.

Out in the greenhouse, mid-end May, it finally grew a little.

Planted it out, and by gosh it's doing just fine. Grew well, almost caught up to the others, and is flowering.

Odd.

ljp · June 17, 2011

I had some small seedlings as well. I got some seed for a SASE and had poor germination with some varieties (older seed). The plants were about 3" when I put them out so I've covered them with cloches (plastic jugs) to give them an extra assist. The technique helped with some late sprouters last year.

shlacm · June 17, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by tam91

Well that tiny seedling just sat around for ages. And stayed tiny. It was an inch or two tall, where the other plants were up to 12". But I kept it kind of segregated, didn't have the heart to kill it.

Out in the greenhouse, mid-end May, it finally grew a little.

Planted it out, and by gosh it's doing just fine. Grew well, almost caught up to the others, and is flowering.

Odd.

Too funny!!!

heirloomdaddy · June 21, 2011

immature seed will cause this. Not enough food stores within the seed.

tam91 · June 21, 2011

Ah, well that's an explanation then - thanks!

The plant should still grow true then, correct?

March 23, 2011	#1
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	Teeny Tiny seedlings I have one variety that didn't germinate real well. I had three, but one got brown and crispy, and died. The other two have survived, but are very very teeny tiny compared to my other varieties. Practically miniscule. Do these guys have a chance, or do you think something is really wrong?

March 25, 2011	#9
ddsack Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Northern Minnesota - zone 3 Posts: 3,231	Tam, I occasionally have had those teeny tiny seedlings come up. Usually they tend to be late sprouters that appear a week or even two after the others in the cell are up. I try to separate them from the larger plants as soon as I can, because it's my feeling that there is some hormone or clue from the roots of the larger seedlings that may stunt them permanently if they sit there too long - sort of like an "occupied - no room here, don't bother trying to grow, loser! " Sometimes they will take off and eventually size up, other times they just sit for weeks and are still too small at planting out time. The ones I am talking about always appear green and healthy, just don't want to grow up and out. I've never figured out how much is maybe just being a faulty genetic runt, environmental stress, or maybe something disease related, but nothing has ever spread to the healthy surrounding seedlings, in my experience. Since you say some of yours dried up and died, there must have been more involved there than just the small size. __________________ Dee **************

June 17, 2011	#11
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	Well that tiny seedling just sat around for ages. And stayed tiny. It was an inch or two tall, where the other plants were up to 12". But I kept it kind of segregated, didn't have the heart to kill it. Out in the greenhouse, mid-end May, it finally grew a little. Planted it out, and by gosh it's doing just fine. Grew well, almost caught up to the others, and is flowering. Odd. __________________ Tracy

June 21, 2011	#15
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	Ah, well that's an explanation then - thanks! The plant should still grow true then, correct? __________________ Tracy

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March 23, 2011	#3
shlacm Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Central VA Posts: 436	I really don't don't have much in the way of actual experience... but this year I have started something like 80 varieties and several of those varieties had "teeny tiny" seeds, which naturally (I assume) resulted in "teeny tiny" seedlings... which will surely catch up with the others size-wise as they are all indeterminates that get very large and vigorous (think: Matt's Wild Cherry!).

June 17, 2011	#12
ljp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Edmonton Alberta Posts: 189	I had some small seedlings as well. I got some seed for a SASE and had poor germination with some varieties (older seed). The plants were about 3" when I put them out so I've covered them with cloches (plastic jugs) to give them an extra assist. The technique helped with some late sprouters last year.

June 21, 2011	#14
heirloomdaddy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Los Angeles Z10 Posts: 291	immature seed will cause this. Not enough food stores within the seed.