Brandywine From Croatia - Scored 7 Plants Today!

[rnewste]

Today is the big Santa Clara Master Gardener's Plant Sale, so up at 6:30am this morning, and while not first in line (actually about #50), nevertheless I made a hasty trek to the Beefsteak section, and snagged 7 Brandywine From Croatia plants:



Just happened to be standing in a line talking with a person who has grown this variety for the past 2 years and said she liked it better than Sudduth and the OTV varieties.



When I got home I noticed that 6 of the plants were RL, but one marked Brandywine From Croatia was actually PL.



So either I have a "mutant" or the more likely scenario is that someone put the wrong variety tag in the plant. In any event, I'll grow it out to see what it turns out to be.

Also was able to get an Ed's Millennium:



I know there was some discussion last year about whether it was a Pink or Red, but here is the name tag from Ed Lo's seedlings himself:



Later this Season, I will be saving seeds from both, so as I did with the Goose Creek offer in the past, send me a PM in September and I'll get seeds out.

You can see in one of the photos, I also stopped at Lowes on the way home and bought 4 more Totes to make 2 additional EarthTainers for some of the new, unexpected plants.

Raybo

[carolyn137]

http://tomatoville.com/showthread.ph...dywine+croatia

Ray, do you remember the discussion we had about this Brandywine from Croatia here at Tville just a few months ago? I reread the thread and while it got political at one point I don't see any reason at all to assume that the Croatian one is any different from the one we alread know.

Do you?

And you said in that thread that you weren't going to bother going to the Master Gardener's sale this year.

Edited to add, b'c I forgot to do so above, that in that thread it said the they were RL last year, not PL if it was really BW, and now you're saying there are still some RL plants, which is a real problem as I see it.

[rnewste]

Carolyn,

Yes, I do remember that Thread which went way off topic. That is why I started a new one on this variety today. It was interesting in a random conversation while waiting in line, that the person was so impressed by Brandywine from Croatia from growing it the past 2 years (she offered me some of her saved seeds if all of the plants were gone). So in any event, I am growing it next to Brandywine Sudduth in exactly the same conditions, fertilizer, etc. and the "A/B" comparison ought to be interesting.

Regarding the PL plant I noticed only after I got them home, it is more than likely a mix-up in whoever stuck in the variety tag - - but we'll see what develops. I love a bit of "mystery" in the garden...

Raybo

[carolyn137]

[quote=rnewste;208049]Carolyn,

Yes, I do remember that Thread which went way off topic. That is why I started a new one on this variety today. It was interesting that a random conversation while waiting in line, that the person was so impressed by Brandywine from Croatia from growing it the past 2 years (she offered me some of her saved seeds if all of the plants were gone). So in any event, I am growing it next to Brandywine Sudduth in exactly the same conditions, fertilizer, etc. and the "A/B" comparison ought to be interesting.

Regarding the PL plant I noticed only after I got them home, it is more than likely a mix-up in whoever stuck in the variety tag - - but we'll see what develops. I love a bit of "mystery" in the garden...

THe only two reasons I linked to that thread were #1 I remembered it, which is primary, and #2, I thought the input on the Croation one might be valuable to the current discussion so that a lot of what was posted then, probably doesn't need to be posted now.

And how about we PLEASE forget the political content in the thread, and stick to just the Croation Brandywine, thank you very much.

Now back to tennis for me, and wherever Andrey is he should be pleased since Viktoria Azarenka from Minsk, Belarus just beat Maria Sharapova at the Masters 1000 near Miami. it was Andrey who first called my attention to her and she's a terrific player and getting better every year. And since Andrey is a tomato lover I thought it would be OK to include this paragraph.

[Gobig_or_Gohome_toms]

Ray I know the Ed's millennium you sent me a few years ago produced very tasty pink tomatoes so will be interesdted to see what the red variety produces. What was you source for the original pink seeds that you sent?

Looking forward to seeing taste test in a few months from you.

Craig

[rnewste]

Originally Posted by Gobig_or_Gohome_toms

Ray I know the Ed's millennium you sent me a few years ago produced very tasty pink tomatoes so will be interesdted to see what the red variety produces. What was you source for the original pink seeds that you sent?

Looking forward to seeing taste test in a few months from you.

Craig

Craig,

I purchased my original Ed's Millenium (sp) at Yamagami's Nursery in Cupertino. I don't recall the label on the plant package at that time.

I'll email Ed Lo, its creator to try to clarify both the correct spelling (I've been getting it wrong all these years, apparently) as well as his take on whether it is indeed pink, and somebody made a mistake on today's label identifying it as a "red".

Raybo

[Gobig_or_Gohome_toms]

Sounds good Ray I do know the seeds you sent me were PL and pink with very good taste I have not re-grown them since 2008 with my limited space but plan to before my saved seeds go bad as I really enjoyed it. Thanks again for sharing it with me.

Craig

[roper2008]

Nice looking plants. Will be interesting to see how they come out.

[travis]

While I think Brandywine Sudduth is a wonderful tomato, I don't see any reason to assume it's the original Brandywine from Johnson and Stokes circa 1889, which some evidence indicates more likely was regular leaf and red rather than potato leaf and pink.

So, who's to say the Croation Brandywine isn't closer to the original Johnson and Stokes Brandywine than Sudduth is? And since there is a regular leaf, red Brandywine commonly available from historic American sources, is it really important or troublesome that the Croation Brandywine may be regular leaf whether pink or red?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

While I think Brandywine Sudduth is a wonderful tomato, I don't see any reason to assume it's the original Brandywine from Johnson and Stokes circa 1889, which some evidence indicates more likely was regular leaf and red rather than potato leaf and pink.

So, who's to say the Croation Brandywine isn't closer to the original Johnson and Stokes Brandywine than Sudduth is? And since there is a regular leaf, red Brandywine commonly available from historic American sources, is it really important or troublesome that the Croation Brandywine may be regular leaf whether pink or red?

I never assumed that the pink PL Brandywine was first introduced by JOhnson and Stokes. After Tom Hauch got Red Brandywine out of the SSE YEarbook and sent seeds to Steve Miller at the Landis Museum Steve was able to determine that RB was known in Chester , PA in about 1885 as I recall, and that goes along with the Johnson and Stokes RB, probably.

I have the line drawing that was published in that 1989 J and S catalog somewhere and will try to find it, but as I recall it was a line drawing and leaf form could not be determined and I don't think color was mentioned.

If the J and S one was RL and a medium sized red, it doesn't compute with me that any so called Brandywine that's PL and a large pink is related.

Burpee has made claims that Brandywine is their Mikado. Craig and I both grew out that one from the USDA and got both red and pink fruited plants and as I recall both PL and RL plants and last I knew Craig had a large pink PL.

It doesn't matter to me what the Croation one is. But I'm not about to assume that it originated in Croatia since there's been plenty of time for anyone here in the US to take seeds back with them to Europe and grow it there.

And leaf forms can change.

The obsession with Brandywine knows no bounds IMO. Yes, I think it's a good variety, whatever the background. Does it have a unique taste? Yes, for me it does but I also find Prue to have a unique taste for me, for instance. Two different unique tastes, but both unique for me.

Is Brandywine THE best of the large pink fruited PL's that I've grown? I couldn't say unless I grew out some others that have the same basic traits in the same season and done direct comparisons. And that I've never done and probably will not be able to do it in the future.

These same kinds of discussions have been going on forever and were ongoing when I first started posting in the AOL Tomato Forum back in the mid-80's and I get the impression, and a strong one at that, that I'll be up in Tomato Heaven, look down and the same kinds of discussions will still be ongoing, probably forever since there simply is no good documentation to unequivically say that's right and that's wrong.

Reading Craig 's article about the supposed family Brandywines, the red, pink and yellow, at Victory Seeds, will illustrate the confusion that's always been extant about those three based on entries in the earliest of SSE YEarbooks and information presented in the non-Yearbook publications.

So I hope someone will do some comparison growouts with Sudduth, some non Sudduth ones, and the Croation one in the same season, in order to neutralize variables, and make direct comparisons.

Of course that also means that the same comparisons need to be done in different growing zones in different parts of the country since time and time again we read about this or that one being THE best. And it also means that for those comparisons the plants have to be grown the same way, whether it be sprawling or caging, or whatever, and the same amendments used and on and on it goes.

Lunch today while I watch the mens tennis final from Miami will be a Greek salad purchased at a deli section locally, accompanied with what are called Cherub grape tomatoes. The cutest darn packaging I've seen in a while and great tasting for a winter grape tomato.

Now to read the Sunday paper and temporarily forget about Brandywines of any color, leaf form and origin.

[travis]

Maybe I misinterpretted this statement:

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Edited to add, b'c I forgot to do so above, that in that thread it said the they were RL last year, not PL if it was really BW, and now you're saying there are still some RL plants, which is a real problem as I see it.

I took it to mean that if the Croation Brandywine is regular leaf, that's a real problem since the "real" Brandywine is potato leaf.

If something else was meant, then disregard my post. However, if something from Croatia named Brandywine presents a problem simply because it's regular leaf, please consider my comments operative.

[Irv Wiseguy]

Ray,

I might hit you up for a couple Ed's Millenium seeds in the Fall. I like to grow varieties that have my family members' names. My father's first name was Ed. This year I'm growing Ed's Fat Plum and would love to grow Ed's Millenium next year!

Brandywine from Croatia sounds like a great tomato, but the plant is too big for me as I have limited garden space. I'll still be interested in reading your impression of it after you've grown it.

Thanks,

Irv

[carolyn137]

[quote=travis;208125]Maybe I misinterpretted this statement:



I took it to mean that if the Croation Brandywine is regular leaf, that's a real problem since the "real" Brandywine is potato leaf.

***

Travis, all I was saying in that edited comment was repeating what Ray had said about the Croation plants last year at the sale which were all RL.

Ray then went on to say that he had a PL one this year and now he's attributing it to a stray seed.

As I think I said above, since leaf forms can and do change is it possible that the Croation one could still be Brandywine and RL, I mean stable RL? Why not? I don't have a problem with that as long as it was a single spontaneous mutation and no other genes were involved.

(If something else was meant, then disregard my post. However, if something from Croatia named Brandywine presents a problem simply because it's regular leaf, please consider my comments operative.)

I hope you now understand that I was referring to something Ray said last year about all plants being RL and his getting a PL initially this year but essentially writing it off. And I'd add that if the PL Ray got this year turns out to have large pink beefsteaks then I would possibly question genetic stability.

Only time will tell. Right Ray?

[rnewste]

Carolyn and Travis,

That's what makes this hobby so much fun. Like reading a good Mystery novel.

I have planted in a single row of EarthTainers: Stump of the World, Brandywine Sudduth, Brandywine from Croatia (RL), the one Brandywine from Croatia? (PL), and a Brandywine x Japanese Black Trifele that Damon gave me. All are in a row with equal sunshine, water, fertilizer, etc.

I'll have 4 additional Brandywine from Croatia (RL) plants in an isolated area of the yard for seed saving purposes. Time to get out the digital camera for the new Season!

Raybo

[shlacm]

How fun!!! A treasure hunt followed by a mystery! Why isn't everyone hopelessly addicted to growing tomatoes?