My New Garden

Too Tall Toms · November 10, 2011

I'm planning on having an all-tomato garden next year. I have a spot in my lawn where I'm going to put it. I've always assumed that if you want to put a garden in somewhere you need to rototill it to loosen the soil, add amendments, etc. but then I started reading articles here and there about tilling and how you should NOT till in a new garden.

What should I do?

TomNJ · November 10, 2011

I would spread any fertilizers and amendments on top, then turn it deeply by hand with a shovel. It the area is too large I would till it.

I believe some recommend against tilling because it disturbs the soil structure and the earth worms, and can lead to a dead pan layer, but I think these are only a problem from over tilling (too frequently). Countering that argument is that tilling allows you to incorporate beneficial amendments.

Turning by shovel should be much less disturbing. I till some years and turn by shovel in other years. If my garden was much larger I would till every year but in the fall rather than right before planting.

TomNJ

Too Tall Toms · November 10, 2011

Well the problem with my property is that the ground is way too compact. I wanted to plant a tree last year(a small transplanted one from another area of my property) and it took me FOREVER to dig the hole. It was like trying to dig through rock. I had to use a crow bar and it took me a while but it eventually got to where I was happy with it.
Keeping that hole in mind makes me want to get a tiller to do my tomato garden. I think once the garden is tilled, I won't have to bother with tilling it again.
And I was actually planning on tilling it now and then come planting time, that's when I would add compost and other amendments. I would do that by hand.
I just wanted to get some opinions from the experts here.

cloz · November 10, 2011

I have always tilled in the spring. This year I will be picking up the majority of my leaves with my lawn mower to chop them up a bit and putting them directly on the garden for the winter. Then in the spring I will add the compost from my compost pile on top and till everything in. The partially composted leaves made for some nice loose soil to plant in. The other benefit of leaving the leaves on the garden is that the garden became absolutely loaded with worms and tilling did not seem to reduce the quantity of worms at all. Composting leaves would also add heat to the soil to some extent I would assume. It works well for me.

Elizabeth · November 10, 2011

Years ago in another house I successfully grew veggies in what used to be lawn using a a no-till method. I couldn't afford a tiller back then (still don't have one) and had to figure out a cheap and easy way to accomplish my goals. Do a google search for for no-till gardening and lasagna gardening to see how it's done. It's pretty easy and low tech.

Too Tall Toms · November 10, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

Years ago in another house I successfully grew veggies in what used to be lawn using a a no-till method. I couldn't afford a tiller back then (still don't have one) and had to figure out a cheap and easy way to accomplish my goals. Do a google search for for no-till gardening and lasagna gardening to see how it's done. It's pretty easy and low tech.

Oh I wouldn't want to buy a tiller. I would rent one from the local hardware store. It's not like I HAVE to make a decision any time soon. I'll look into lasagne gardening. Thanks!

Too Tall Toms · November 10, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloz

I have always tilled in the spring. This year I will be picking up the majority of my leaves with my lawn mower to chop them up a bit and putting them directly on the garden for the winter. Then in the spring I will add the compost from my compost pile on top and till everything in. The partially composted leaves made for some nice loose soil to plant in. The other benefit of leaving the leaves on the garden is that the garden became absolutely loaded with worms and tilling did not seem to reduce the quantity of worms at all. Composting leaves would also add heat to the soil to some extent I would assume. It works well for me.

I could easily pick up a TON of leaves. I was thinking about just having a pile of leaves sitting in a flower bed to start off my compost pile next spring.

So you would just add the chopped leaves to the garden without composting them? I thought I read that you should only add leaves to a garden after they're composted.

fortyonenorth · November 10, 2011

Many folks believe that compaction is simply a physical problem, e.g. too much clay. However, in many cases, it's chemical. I suggest that you have your soil tested. Too much magnesium in the soil will cause compaction. If that's the case, appropriate application of calcium will alleviate the problem. If your soil sticks to your boots when it's wet, it's probably high in Mg.

Too Tall Toms · November 10, 2011

The problem with my soil around my house is that it's so darn rocky. When my Mom and Dad had this house built back in 1993, she spent hours and hours and hours getting rid of all of the rocky junk and replacing it with good garden soil that she made herself. The only soil around this house that's good is where the flower beds are now. Other than that, the rest is junk.
Back before this development was here, it was a dairy farm. So you would think the soil would be great, right? LOL heck no. After the developer bought the land, he removed several inches of the good soil and sold it.

cloz · November 13, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Too Tall Toms

I could easily pick up a TON of leaves. I was thinking about just having a pile of leaves sitting in a flower bed to start off my compost pile next spring.

So you would just add the chopped leaves to the garden without composting them? I thought I read that you should only add leaves to a garden after they're composted.

The leaves (about a 6" layer of partially chopped leaves) will sit on top of the ground in the garden all winter long. I found that they partially composted by spring time and have a huge worm population underneath them in the spring. The rest of my leaves go into my compost pile and will compost for 1 year. The previous years compost gets put on the garden in the spring and tilled in along with the partially composted leaves (which are only about 1 to 2 inches thick by spring).
Works for me. Your conditions may be different.

Too Tall Toms · November 13, 2011

I was always under the impression that you shouldn't add leaves to your garden until they're completely composted

cloz · November 13, 2011

Quote:

Originally Posted by Too Tall Toms

I was always under the impression that you shouldn't add leaves to your garden until they're completely composted

If you pile leaves in a pile for composting, they will take 2 years or better to fully compost if you don"t turn them every couple of months. I venture to bet that most compost that is added to gardens have a good quantity of leaves that are not fully composted. The benefit I have seen since doing this is that my garden contains a much larger worm population and worms produce fertilizer and work the soil for you. I am sure there are all kinds of studies done to show that one method is better than the other. I believe in what works for me. I have been adding partially composted leaves (I've been too lazy to turn the pile or my pile got too big and I had no room to turn it) to my garden (as did my father all his life) for 25 years with no ill effect and very good plant growth and nice workable soil.
I am not a big believer in studies on things. Most results are slanted depending on who paid for the study.

habitat_gardener · November 13, 2011

If I were going to reclaim some lawn space, I'd pile up whatever organic materials I could get right now to smother the grasses. If the lawn had lots of weeds that come from seed, I'd put down a layer of cardboard or newspaper (moistened as you go to keep it from blowing away) under the mulch to inhibit weed-seed germination. Depending on what you use, 12-24 inches is not too much.

I've added 12-18 inches of horse manure and straw to garden beds in the fall. By spring they shrink to half or less. Other people at the community garden have piled on lots of mulch (from tree trimmers) and by spring it's wonderful compost. No tilling needed.

Lasagna gardening has recipes that call for specific organics in a certain order. I always improvise and use what I have on hand.

November 10, 2011	#1
Too Tall Toms Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 116	My New Garden I'm planning on having an all-tomato garden next year. I have a spot in my lawn where I'm going to put it. I've always assumed that if you want to put a garden in somewhere you need to rototill it to loosen the soil, add amendments, etc. but then I started reading articles here and there about tilling and how you should NOT till in a new garden. What should I do?

November 10, 2011	#5
Elizabeth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: San Diego Coastal - Zone 10b Posts: 204	Years ago in another house I successfully grew veggies in what used to be lawn using a a no-till method. I couldn't afford a tiller back then (still don't have one) and had to figure out a cheap and easy way to accomplish my goals. Do a google search for for no-till gardening and lasagna gardening to see how it's done. It's pretty easy and low tech. __________________ Elizabeth If I'm going to water and care for a plant it had better give me food, flowers or shade. Last edited by Elizabeth; November 10, 2011 at 03:53 PM. Reason: clarification

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November 10, 2011	#2
TomNJ Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2009 Location: Floyd VA Posts: 771	I would spread any fertilizers and amendments on top, then turn it deeply by hand with a shovel. It the area is too large I would till it. I believe some recommend against tilling because it disturbs the soil structure and the earth worms, and can lead to a dead pan layer, but I think these are only a problem from over tilling (too frequently). Countering that argument is that tilling allows you to incorporate beneficial amendments. Turning by shovel should be much less disturbing. I till some years and turn by shovel in other years. If my garden was much larger I would till every year but in the fall rather than right before planting. TomNJ

November 10, 2011	#4
cloz Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Southern Connecticut Posts: 435	I have always tilled in the spring. This year I will be picking up the majority of my leaves with my lawn mower to chop them up a bit and putting them directly on the garden for the winter. Then in the spring I will add the compost from my compost pile on top and till everything in. The partially composted leaves made for some nice loose soil to plant in. The other benefit of leaving the leaves on the garden is that the garden became absolutely loaded with worms and tilling did not seem to reduce the quantity of worms at all. Composting leaves would also add heat to the soil to some extent I would assume. It works well for me.

November 10, 2011	#8
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	Many folks believe that compaction is simply a physical problem, e.g. too much clay. However, in many cases, it's chemical. I suggest that you have your soil tested. Too much magnesium in the soil will cause compaction. If that's the case, appropriate application of calcium will alleviate the problem. If your soil sticks to your boots when it's wet, it's probably high in Mg.

November 13, 2011	#11
Too Tall Toms Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 116	I was always under the impression that you shouldn't add leaves to your garden until they're completely composted

November 13, 2011	#13
habitat_gardener Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: California Central Valley Posts: 2,543	If I were going to reclaim some lawn space, I'd pile up whatever organic materials I could get right now to smother the grasses. If the lawn had lots of weeds that come from seed, I'd put down a layer of cardboard or newspaper (moistened as you go to keep it from blowing away) under the mulch to inhibit weed-seed germination. Depending on what you use, 12-24 inches is not too much. I've added 12-18 inches of horse manure and straw to garden beds in the fall. By spring they shrink to half or less. Other people at the community garden have piled on lots of mulch (from tree trimmers) and by spring it's wonderful compost. No tilling needed. Lasagna gardening has recipes that call for specific organics in a certain order. I always improvise and use what I have on hand.