Ordering NPGS Germplasm

[Heritage]

I want to compare 'Early Santa Clara Canner' to the 'Santa Clara Canner' I am currently growing, so I requested the ESCC germplasm through NPGS about 2 weeks ago.

I haven't heard anything back from them - whether they received my request, or if it was accepted/denied, etc.

I'm wondering what others have experienced with NPGS requests and what is the expected time to wait for processing of the request. Also, would appreciate any other pointers about requesting germplasm through seed banks.

Thanks,
Steve

[Boutique Tomatoes]

In my experience if it is a USDA request you simply get a package with your request in it in the mail anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks later.

If you start looking at overseas seed banks, remember that many of them will send the seeds with a Phytosanitary certificate for customs that they may charge for, and you technically are supposed to have a free Small Lot of Seeds import license. I went through the hoops for some of the stuff I'll be growing next year and the various fees and shipping charges made those seeds almost $1 each. ( I really hope they turn out to be something good. )

[Heritage]

Originally Posted by marktutt

In my experience if it is a USDA request you simply get a package with your request in it in the mail anywhere from 2 to 6 weeks later.

If you start looking at overseas seed banks, remember that many of them will send the seeds with a Phytosanitary certificate for customs that they may charge for, and you technically are supposed to have a free Small Lot of Seeds import license. I went through the hoops for some of the stuff I'll be growing next year and the various fees and shipping charges made those seeds almost $1 each. ( I really hope they turn out to be something good. )

great, thanks Mark!

[carolyn137]

The last I knew was that PCGRIN, aka the USDA list, was closed to all except those who provided documantation on why they needed the seeds, either as a hybridizer, etc.

In the past there has been great abuse of that system with folks requesting seeds who never checked to see if the seeds were already out and available.

The USDA station in Geneva, NY is the main place where growouts are done and so requests eventually reached them, but the backup seed long term storage place is on Fort Collins, CO, so when Craig and I were getting seeds for lots of varieties in the early to mid 90's when it was permissable to do so, you'd get one package with seeds possibly from both places.

THe growout distance at the time In GEneva, NY was 0, so many of the seeds Craig and I received were not true at all.

So are you telling me that the USDA PCGRIN for tomato seed is totally open again to the public with no documentation required? That would really surprise me b'c in the past there was one person who went around to message sites saying that everyone should get seeds from the USDA ( and about 90% of the tomato accessions are outdated breeding line ones) saying that we pay taxes so the seeds are ours.

At the time I contacted the head of the USDA station in Ames, IA and she wrote back an e-mail, which I had requested, stating what the policy was.

Santa Clara Canner I know well, b'c it was either Craig or myself who got it out of the USDA and SSE listed it. I don't have my reserach papers near me right now but I think Early Santa Clara Canner was just a selection made that initially appeared earlier for the person who made the selection. Another selection from Santa Clara Canner which I liked even better is Diener.

I just checked and it was I who did list Santa Clara Canner, NSL 342443, in about 1996. NSL is the National Seed Storage lab in Fort Collins.

Right below my listing was one for Santa Clara Early, listed by SSE itself, seeds from Don Brandscom, CA and the SSE description given was 3-4 inch flattened red beefsteak fruit on 5 ft plant. SSE tomato, and then the SSE accession # was given.

Sun is setting, no time to proof the above.

[Boutique Tomatoes]

I've ordered several varieties from PCGRIN, simply putting in the notes that I was looking to obtain varieties that were no longer available. I started a couple of years ago with Holcombe Prolific corn, the corn that was mentioned as the best to use for moonshine in the FoxFire books. I'm planning to do a large plot of that this year, bagging and hand pollinating several hundred ears to send it out to a few people. I know the question about it's availability pops up frequently in the hobby distilling community and I'd like to see it become available again.

Since then I've never been questioned about requests, but then most of what I have requested hasn't been available elsewhere that I have been able to find. I don't know if there is any filtering done of the requests, but I have a number of Caribbean tomato and pepper varieties I obtained from PCGRIN that are on my grow out list for next year.

The overseas seed banks are a bit more difficult, but being polite and having a reason why I'm willing to take a chance on 30 year old seeds for a variety that the only thing special about it was the island it was collected on has served me well.

[Heritage]

Thanks Carolyn,

The order form bolded "The accessions within the NPGS are available in small quantities for research and education purposes only." and they also wanted the purpose for the research... so it may not be as easy as I had hoped. My intention of "comparing two selections" may not meet their definition of "research".

http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs...ction=complete

And, thanks much for the history of Santa Clara Canner - I should have known to ask here first!

Steve

[fortyonenorth]

Wow. Moonshine and hot, hot peppers. I have to party with you, dude

[Heritage]

Mark,

Thanks again, for the specifics... it will be interesting to see if my request is processed. And, let the party begin!

Steve

[KLorentz]

I did get some seeds as Carolyn may recall from IPK Gattersliban Germany and CGN in Netherlands a couple years ago. They kindly sent what I requested .This was a once in a blue moon thing for me as I don't want to abuse such a system .


Kevin

[Zeedman]

My first post here...

Over the years, I've requested several things from NPGS, through the GRIN system. Never tomatoes, though. The chances of getting seed may depend upon the policies of the particular repository where the seed is held.

I submitted statements with my requests, providing the specific purposes for which the seed would be used. I also stated that provided that the trial was successful, that the resultant seed would be shared with others. They honored my requests, and I sent two feedback letters back to the respective repositories.

A side note: I received email confirmation from GRIN for several of my online requests. The sender ID was "uidnobody"... a little unexpected humor from a government agency.

My requests were all made several years ago. It's my understanding that the policy has changed since then, most likely due to several high-profile online abusers who placed numerous frivolous requests & advocated on several forums for others to do likewise. This is unfortunate, since there are many civic-minded gardeners who are also breeders & amateur researchers.

While the system has been abused (especially in recent years), my impression of the NPGS is that there are still many open-minded & helpful people there. Provided that:
(1) your request is reasonable (not for 100 accessions!)
(2) the seed is not available elsewhere
(3) the repository has sufficient stock on hand
(4) the seed will serve a useful civic or scientific purpose
I believe there is still a good chance that the request will be filled. There are several people I know who have obtained seeds from the NPGS recently, so I know it can still be done... but not for frivolous purposes.

For anyone who is seriously interested in obtaining seed from the NPGS, I would recommend that you first contact the curator, explaining what you wish to request & its intended purpose. A map of the repositories is in the link below; when you roll over each location, it lists the types of germplasm held there (there may be several types for a given location). Clicking on the repository will give you the contact information for the curators.
http://www.ars-grin.gov/npgs/holdings.html

Oh, and regarding the accessions themselves. Some are not "varieties" per se, and can be very unstable. An eggplant that I requested was quite variable, and needed selection to stabilize something useful.

[Boutique Tomatoes]

Welcome Zeedman!

The people within the NPGS system that I have communicated with have been extremely helpful. I think if you're not percieved as trying to use it as a seed catalog you have a decent chance of getting your request.

Note to anyone requesting pepper seeds: A large part of the collection is infected with the mild mottle virus. They do let you know if the ones you've requested have tested positive, but I'm growing mine in pots at a friends house miles away from my own gardens just in case.

forthyonenorth, I'll send you an invite to the next big one. Probably next havest season when I need extra hands seeding peppers.

[Heritage]

Yes, Welcome Zeedman! And thank you all for the helpful info!

Steve

[Heritage]

Update:

The seed arrived about 6 weeks after the request. Thanks all for the info!

Steve

[jpayne]

Sorry to dig up this very old thread, but I was recently denied a request from NPGS. I requested Holcombe Prolific seed to do a comparison against Hickory King, but I guess my test description wasn't good enough. I am disappointed and slightly annoyed since there are NO sources of Holcombe Prolific anymore. :-(

[travis]

How was the denial worded?