Germination Rate: Genetics or Collection Process

marc_groleau · April 18, 2012

After years of starting and growing strictly hybrid tomatoes from one of the largest and oldest commercial seed companies, I am starting heirlooms and those same hybrid seeds together under the same growing conditions. Actually in the same seed trays. So far, I am just about three weeks into the seedling stage. Almost 100% of the hybrids have sprouted and are looking very strong. The heirlooms are anywhere from 20-50% germination rate depending on the variety it seems and not all of those that sprouted look viable in the long run. All the heirloom seeds are from the same well known supplier. So is it hybrid verses heirloom genetics that account for the disparity or is it the commercial collection process verses mom & pop collectors that makes the difference? What has been your experience? I am excited about comparing flavor and quality of fruit.

Thanks,

April 18, 2012

I've found most of the hybrid seed I purchased over the years from reputable vendors has very good germination rates. Most of the open pollinated seed from the same vendors have displayed good germination rates. I think most vendors simply believe their continued business success is dependent on supplying viable seed.Some well known vendors are reported to have low germination on some varieties. I've experienced the same problem with a few vendors. My germination rates decline with OP seed I received in trade. Often seed savers who trade with others do not always test their germination rate before trading their seed. I do, simply because I will be using the same seed for my garden and I want to know early in the season if it is viable or if I need to save another batch to increase viability.

Ted

**carolyn137** · April 18, 2012

A seed is a seed and there's no difference in germination percentage for F1 versus OP seed of the same age.

However, as I've posted here before you can't go by a packed by date which just tells you when the seeds were packed, but not when they were produced.

Regardless of the seed source there will always be seeds of different age that are sent out. For those places that produce their own seed, when a variety gets low they do more seed production for those varieties. So you may get fresh seeds for some varieties and older seeds for other varieties from the same place.

There are two places where I know that tomato seed for ALL varieties are never older than two years old and that's Sandhill Preservation and Glecklers Seedmen. There maybe others who can make that claim, but I'm not aware of them.

marc_groleau · April 19, 2012

So it does come down to the practices of the supplier. Thanks for the info. Carolyn, your explanation makes perfect sense and thanks for the names of those suppliers.

rsg2001 · April 20, 2012

I didn't know that seeds weren't necessarily fresh each year from the provider. Good to know. This year I planted the variety Black from a package I bought in 2007, and the three seeds I planted all came up nicely. I don't consider 5 years though to be particularly long time. Emboldened, I planted some Raspberry (tomato) seeds I saved in 2005 from a previous Carolyn seed offer and crossing my fingers. It's still too soon to tell.

I follow Carolyn's book's recommendation for how to save tomato seed and I can honestly say I've had good germination from everything I've saved (which admittedly is only a few varieties).

April 18, 2012	#1
marc_groleau Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 444	Germination Rate: Genetics or Collection Process After years of starting and growing strictly hybrid tomatoes from one of the largest and oldest commercial seed companies, I am starting heirlooms and those same hybrid seeds together under the same growing conditions. Actually in the same seed trays. So far, I am just about three weeks into the seedling stage. Almost 100% of the hybrids have sprouted and are looking very strong. The heirlooms are anywhere from 20-50% germination rate depending on the variety it seems and not all of those that sprouted look viable in the long run. All the heirloom seeds are from the same well known supplier. So is it hybrid verses heirloom genetics that account for the disparity or is it the commercial collection process verses mom & pop collectors that makes the difference? What has been your experience? I am excited about comparing flavor and quality of fruit. Thanks,

April 18, 2012	#3
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	A seed is a seed and there's no difference in germination percentage for F1 versus OP seed of the same age. However, as I've posted here before you can't go by a packed by date which just tells you when the seeds were packed, but not when they were produced. Regardless of the seed source there will always be seeds of different age that are sent out. For those places that produce their own seed, when a variety gets low they do more seed production for those varieties. So you may get fresh seeds for some varieties and older seeds for other varieties from the same place. There are two places where I know that tomato seed for ALL varieties are never older than two years old and that's Sandhill Preservation and Glecklers Seedmen. There maybe others who can make that claim, but I'm not aware of them. __________________ Carolyn

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April 18, 2012	#2
tedln Guest Posts: n/a	I've found most of the hybrid seed I purchased over the years from reputable vendors has very good germination rates. Most of the open pollinated seed from the same vendors have displayed good germination rates. I think most vendors simply believe their continued business success is dependent on supplying viable seed.Some well known vendors are reported to have low germination on some varieties. I've experienced the same problem with a few vendors. My germination rates decline with OP seed I received in trade. Often seed savers who trade with others do not always test their germination rate before trading their seed. I do, simply because I will be using the same seed for my garden and I want to know early in the season if it is viable or if I need to save another batch to increase viability. Ted

April 19, 2012	#4
marc_groleau Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 444	So it does come down to the practices of the supplier. Thanks for the info. Carolyn, your explanation makes perfect sense and thanks for the names of those suppliers.

April 20, 2012	#5
rsg2001 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Zone 6 Posts: 479	I didn't know that seeds weren't necessarily fresh each year from the provider. Good to know. This year I planted the variety Black from a package I bought in 2007, and the three seeds I planted all came up nicely. I don't consider 5 years though to be particularly long time. Emboldened, I planted some Raspberry (tomato) seeds I saved in 2005 from a previous Carolyn seed offer and crossing my fingers. It's still too soon to tell. I follow Carolyn's book's recommendation for how to save tomato seed and I can honestly say I've had good germination from everything I've saved (which admittedly is only a few varieties).