BER-How could I be so stupid????

materlvr · July 11, 2012

Well, I've harvested a few small Druzba and they were yummy. Several of the larger ones were ready to be picked and they had BER! So did my first, big Kelloggs Breakfast!!!!!!!!!! I've done everything the same as all my previous years with this exception, which I think is the murder weapon........

Before planting out I refreshed my 4X8 raised bed with............Kelloggs Amend! 3 bags and I barely mixed it up with the existing soil! I can't believe I forgot what is in Amend, but I don't think it can be anything good.

Is there anything I can do to save the rest of my plants? Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Janie

TightenUp · July 11, 2012

from the website

"Rich in composted organic materials, including enriched plant food & gypsum to soften clay soils"

i dont think any of this sounds bad. how do the plants look? has the watering been consistent?

aside from the kelloggs amend do you think you've done anything else differently? have you had a soil test recently?

TightenUp · July 11, 2012

also from what ive been reading if the plants are healthy and not stressed the BER should go away on its own. patience might be the best medicine right now

materlvr · July 11, 2012

I always water deeply by hand once a week, more if the weather is consistently high. We have had perfect weather for tomatoes, planted out 4/17, no drizzle, clear skys and dry weather.

I had such high hopes and have never seen tomato plants so lush and healthy. Tons of fruit set, too. The only thing I've done differently is add the Amend. My first garden was filled with Kelloggs Growmulch........and that was my perfect garden, I couldn't give away enough tomatoes. I confused the Growmulch with the Amend.

I'm hoping that the BER will go away..........wouldn't you know, no BER on Old German, which I hear is a spitter!

PS I've NEVER had BER before, ever!

materlvr · July 11, 2012

BTW, my info is that Amend comes from "sludge" UGH!

edweather · July 11, 2012

Funny, I haven't found any rhyme or reason for BER occurring. Where we used to live I don't remember ever having it....but I might have had it. Here, for the past few years I've grown tomatoes in the ground, in containers, and in SIP's. From time to time I've had BER from all 3 growing locations. Last year I had it from a plant in the ground, this year I've had a few from my containers, and tonight I removed 4 BER's from my SIP. I know I'll have lots of tomatoes, so I'm not worried about losing a few, and in the past the problem seems to clear up over time. So what's the verdict......who knows?

JamesL · July 11, 2012

You are right about the Amend I am sorry to say.
Also hate to tell you that the gromulch is also a sewage product.

Change - "Rich in composted organic materials, including enriched plant food & gypsum to soften clay soils" to "concentrated sewage sludge".
They prefer to call it "biosolids" more commonly known as "other peoples poop".

http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marb...-kellogg-amend

http://www.sludgenews.org/about/sludgenews.aspx?id=5

And I agree with Tightenup on the BER issue - pull and toss the BER fruit, plants will come around.

materlvr · July 11, 2012

I hear you re Kelloggs products. When I have to refresh and add to my raised beds, can someone recommend a universal bagged product to use, available at any home depot store?????

Thanks all!

Janie

rsg2001 · July 11, 2012

There's no rhyme or reason to BER, other than the plants will grow out of it. If it had to do with "doing something wrong" then why do some plants get it and some don't, like in my garden this year? Check the other BER threads - search for Carolyn137 (Dr. Male's) post which explains it better than anyone.

July 12, 2012

If you are concerned about the materials in your other mixes, just using miracle-gro garden/potting soil is not a bad idea. I understand how we always want to do things perfect and such, but I also think you need to keep the budget and resources in mind when growing your own food.

As for bio-solids and such in your garden, that is a tough call. For thousands of years, people have used manure on veggies. That being said, bio-solids scare the crap out of people, and possibly for good reason. The sewer-sludge industry is still very young, and the rules and regulations might need a few more decades before they are finalized. I often work at a plant that makes the local sludge product called Dillo-Dirt. It is an amazing process, that works pretty darn well for composting all the raw materials, but who truly knows what pathogens are left, even after composting for 6-12 months.

July 12, 2012

Michelle Obama's garden at the white house could not be certified organic because someone in the past had used Milorganite on the lawn where the garden was later planted. Milorganite is the dried and cooked sewage sludge from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It contains heavy metals in low concentration as does all sewage sludge.

While BER is frustrating, it typically isn't persistent. Most plants that experience BER damaged fruit early in the season will produce good fruit when growth and moisture availability stabilize.

Ted

QAGuy · July 12, 2012

I've used Kellogg's AMEND exclusively to improve my beds for 6 years. Never have had a
problem with BER. The majority of material appears to be rice hulls, plus other stuff.

Since you say you 'barely mixed in' the AMEND, I fail to see how that could cause BER. After all, tomato roots go quite deep and are probably down below the 'barely mixed in'
AMEND.

I'm a firm believer in the inconsistant moisture theory of BER. That said, I'm sure you
can fathom what my answer to your problem would be.

Have you been checking the moisture levels in your ground to determine when to water
or just estimating?

fortyonenorth · July 12, 2012

Amend contains gypsum, a source of calcium, but you say that you "barely mixed it up." Growing plants take-up calcium from the root tip. So, it (your source of calcium) needs to be thoroughly incorporated. This is especially true for containers and raised beds where soil calcium has a tendency to leach from the soil. Not sure this is your issue, but it's something to keep in mind.

FWIW, I always have BER issue with Kellog's Breakfast.

feldon30 · July 12, 2012

Quote:

Originally Posted by materlvr

I hear you re Kelloggs products. When I have to refresh and add to my raised beds, can someone recommend a universal bagged product to use, available at any home depot store?????

Thanks all!

Janie

The only thing I can think of that Home Depot might carry is Black Kow, but they might not have it in your area.

I'm wondering why you have to limit yourself to Home Depot? Oceanside is 30 minutes away. San Diego and Anaheim are each 1 hour away. I can only imagine the selection of garden centers and local nurseries they have.

materlvr · July 12, 2012

Feldon, I drive 150 miles to buy my seedlings if I don't get around to sowing my own so that's not a problem. I just meant something readily available for a Southern California gardener. I've never heard of the soil you recommended....I'll check with my local nursery and see what they suggest.

Thanks, everyone!

Janie

July 11, 2012	#1
materlvr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Temecula, CA Zone 9b Posts: 181	BER-How could I be so stupid???? Well, I've harvested a few small Druzba and they were yummy. Several of the larger ones were ready to be picked and they had BER! So did my first, big Kelloggs Breakfast!!!!!!!!!! I've done everything the same as all my previous years with this exception, which I think is the murder weapon........ Before planting out I refreshed my 4X8 raised bed with............Kelloggs Amend! 3 bags and I barely mixed it up with the existing soil! I can't believe I forgot what is in Amend, but I don't think it can be anything good. Is there anything I can do to save the rest of my plants? Any advice is greatly appreciated! Janie

July 11, 2012	#4
materlvr Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Temecula, CA Zone 9b Posts: 181	I always water deeply by hand once a week, more if the weather is consistently high. We have had perfect weather for tomatoes, planted out 4/17, no drizzle, clear skys and dry weather. I had such high hopes and have never seen tomato plants so lush and healthy. Tons of fruit set, too. The only thing I've done differently is add the Amend. My first garden was filled with Kelloggs Growmulch........and that was my perfect garden, I couldn't give away enough tomatoes. I confused the Growmulch with the Amend. I'm hoping that the BER will go away..........wouldn't you know, no BER on Old German, which I hear is a spitter! PS I've NEVER had BER before, ever! Last edited by materlvr; July 11, 2012 at 10:20 PM. Reason: add

July 11, 2012	#6
edweather Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Southeast GA, USDA 9a, HZ9, Sunset Z28 Posts: 396	Funny, I haven't found any rhyme or reason for BER occurring. Where we used to live I don't remember ever having it....but I might have had it. Here, for the past few years I've grown tomatoes in the ground, in containers, and in SIP's. From time to time I've had BER from all 3 growing locations. Last year I had it from a plant in the ground, this year I've had a few from my containers, and tonight I removed 4 BER's from my SIP. I know I'll have lots of tomatoes, so I'm not worried about losing a few, and in the past the problem seems to clear up over time. So what's the verdict......who knows? __________________ You'll be surprised what you'll never have to do, if you put it off long enough.

July 12, 2012	#12
QAGuy Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Glendora, CA Posts: 167	I've used Kellogg's AMEND exclusively to improve my beds for 6 years. Never have had a problem with BER. The majority of material appears to be rice hulls, plus other stuff. Since you say you 'barely mixed in' the AMEND, I fail to see how that could cause BER. After all, tomato roots go quite deep and are probably down below the 'barely mixed in' AMEND. I'm a firm believer in the inconsistant moisture theory of BER. That said, I'm sure you can fathom what my answer to your problem would be. Have you been checking the moisture levels in your ground to determine when to water or just estimating? __________________ "We have met the enemy and he is us" - Pogo

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July 11, 2012	#2
TightenUp Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Jersey Posts: 1,183	from the website "Rich in composted organic materials, including enriched plant food & gypsum to soften clay soils" i dont think any of this sounds bad. how do the plants look? has the watering been consistent? aside from the kelloggs amend do you think you've done anything else differently? have you had a soil test recently?

July 11, 2012	#7
JamesL Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 1,992	You are right about the Amend I am sorry to say. Also hate to tell you that the gromulch is also a sewage product. Change - "Rich in composted organic materials, including enriched plant food & gypsum to soften clay soils" to "concentrated sewage sludge". They prefer to call it "biosolids" more commonly known as "other peoples poop". http://www.motherjones.com/blue-marb...-kellogg-amend http://www.sludgenews.org/about/sludgenews.aspx?id=5 And I agree with Tightenup on the BER issue - pull and toss the BER fruit, plants will come around.

July 11, 2012	#9
rsg2001 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Zone 6 Posts: 479	There's no rhyme or reason to BER, other than the plants will grow out of it. If it had to do with "doing something wrong" then why do some plants get it and some don't, like in my garden this year? Check the other BER threads - search for Carolyn137 (Dr. Male's) post which explains it better than anyone.

July 12, 2012	#10
eltex Guest Posts: n/a	If you are concerned about the materials in your other mixes, just using miracle-gro garden/potting soil is not a bad idea. I understand how we always want to do things perfect and such, but I also think you need to keep the budget and resources in mind when growing your own food. As for bio-solids and such in your garden, that is a tough call. For thousands of years, people have used manure on veggies. That being said, bio-solids scare the crap out of people, and possibly for good reason. The sewer-sludge industry is still very young, and the rules and regulations might need a few more decades before they are finalized. I often work at a plant that makes the local sludge product called Dillo-Dirt. It is an amazing process, that works pretty darn well for composting all the raw materials, but who truly knows what pathogens are left, even after composting for 6-12 months.

July 12, 2012	#11
tedln Guest Posts: n/a	Michelle Obama's garden at the white house could not be certified organic because someone in the past had used Milorganite on the lawn where the garden was later planted. Milorganite is the dried and cooked sewage sludge from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. It contains heavy metals in low concentration as does all sewage sludge. While BER is frustrating, it typically isn't persistent. Most plants that experience BER damaged fruit early in the season will produce good fruit when growth and moisture availability stabilize. Ted

July 12, 2012	#13
fortyonenorth Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: NW Indiana Posts: 1,150	Amend contains gypsum, a source of calcium, but you say that you "barely mixed it up." Growing plants take-up calcium from the root tip. So, it (your source of calcium) needs to be thoroughly incorporated. This is especially true for containers and raised beds where soil calcium has a tendency to leach from the soil. Not sure this is your issue, but it's something to keep in mind. FWIW, I always have BER issue with Kellog's Breakfast.