The "short" list

[bwaynef]

I'm trying to plan the varieties I want to start/grow next year. Following events from this summer, I'd really like input on tomatoes owing their heritage to Ukraine/Crimea(Krimea)/Russia ...though I'm not solely growing those varieties.

Ukraine/Crimean varieties that are likely:

• Black Krim
• Black Sea Man
• Olena Ukrainian
• Purple Ukrainian (or Ukrainian Purple)

Other varieties :

• Hillbilly PL* (is there an RL variety, and is there a difference?)
• Giant Syrian
• Italian Heirloom*
• Mortgage Lifter* (Halladay's)
• Nebraska Wedding
• Riesentraube
• Stupice (because I understand it yields heavily)
• Sungold/Sunsugar (to see what all the fuss is about)

Ukraine/Crimea varieties I'm considering:

• Lida Ukrainian
• Orange Crimea
• Purple Russian
• Chyornyi Tarasenko
• Ukrainian Vining
• Ukrainian Pear
• Amazon Chocolate**
• Orange Icicle**

My questions:

1. Have I missed any worthy varieties owing their heritage to Ukraine?
2. Would anyone care to opine as to flavor for any varieties mentioned?
3. What kind of yield should I expect from these varieties?

*I'm likely to grow these varieties.
**These may not be heirlooms, ...which would be my preference for varieties from that area. Also, I can't remember where I came across info indicating these are from Ukraine.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by bwaynef

I'm trying to plan the varieties I want to start/grow next year. Following events from this summer, I'd really like input on tomatoes owing their heritage to Ukraine/Crimea(Krimea)/Russia ...though I'm not solely growing those varieties.

Ukraine/Crimean varieties that are likely:

• Black Krim
• Black Sea Man
• Olena Ukrainian
• Purple Ukrainian (or Ukrainian Purple)

Other varieties :

• Hillbilly PL* (is there an RL variety, and is there a difference?)
• Giant Syrian
• Italian Heirloom*
• Mortgage Lifter* (Halladay's)
• Nebraska Wedding
• Riesentraube
• Stupice (because I understand it yields heavily)
• Sungold/Sunsugar (to see what all the fuss is about)

Ukraine/Crimea varieties I'm considering:

• Lida Ukrainian
• Orange Crimea
• Purple Russian
• Chyornyi Tarasenko
• Ukrainian Vining
• Ukrainian Pear
• Amazon Chocolate**
• Orange Icicle**

My questions:

1. Have I missed any worthy varieties owing their heritage to Ukraine?
2. Would anyone care to opine as to flavor for any varieties mentioned?
3. What kind of yield should I expect from these varieties?

*I'm likely to grow these varieties.
**These may not be heirlooms, ...which would be my preference for varieties from that area. Also, I can't remember where I came across info indicating these are from Ukraine.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com:88/w...inian_Tomatoes

Tania's list of Ukranian ones, and from that list I'd also consider:

Chris Ukrainian, from a plumber where I once taught
Gogosha, from a former student
Khirhiv, from a former neighbor who got it from a Ukrainian lady
Kiev , ditto
Lyuda's Mom's Large Red

Olena Ukrainian us not on her list but I can vouch for it being Ukrainian in origin, since I introduced it as I did the first four in my list above. It camed to me unnamed and I named it for her, as her name was Olena Warshona and she was from Odessa in the Ukraine.

Who knows where Amazon Chocolate came from, really.

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Amazon_Chocolate

If your main interest is only the Ukraine, I understand, but there's some darn good ones from Moldova as well. I know, I know, as in Macedonia, Slovenia, Romania, OK, OK, I'll shut up now.

There's no difference between Hillbilly, the original RL and the PL variant other than a leaf difference, according to those who have grown both in the same season.

Of the ones you're considering you can read the comments about them at Tania's site and for all the ones I've grown I can comment as well, since there are several on your initial list I've also grown and prefer, for instance Noire de Crimmee over its namesake Black Krim. But what it comes down to is each person growing varieties needs to see how they do for that person where they garden, the season they're grown in, how the plants are grown and all sorts of other variables.

Hope that helps.

[bwaynef]

Originally Posted by carolyn137

Of the ones you're considering you can read the comments about them at Tania's site and for all the ones I've grown I can comment as well, since there are several on your initial list I've also grown and prefer, for instance Noire de Crimmee over its namesake Black Krim.

First of all, thanks for the tips. I used a google search to come up with most of what you've shown me in that link, but its presented a lot neater via the link than the google results.

The quote above has thrown me for a loop, the underlined portion specifically. Where can I find something about NdC, ...and is it anything other than a French (?) spelling of the same variety?

[bwaynef]

I see that its a "strain of Black Krim". How does it differ, or why do you prefer it?

[halleone]

I grew Black Krim several years ago, and didn't find it especially grand. It didn't get invited back.


Black Sea Man I have grown for 3-4 years, and it is on my grow-every-year-or-every-other-year list; I am limited to about 10 tomato plants a year, so I occasionally rotate it with Japanese Black Triefele. The two of them together make the very best roasted black tomato sauce I have made, and that alone is enough reason to keep both of them. Guess maybe I better grow both of them again next year.

Hope that helps.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by bwaynef

I see that its a "strain of Black Krim". How does it differ, or why do you prefer it?

Tania's page for it doesn't have the right history. I got in a huge trade with a Frenchman in 1992, actually he had contacted three others at the same time. And between the four of us we bought into the US many varieties that have subsequently become quite popular.

Yes, they should be the same varieties but when I first grew it out I planted my standard Black Krim at the same time and these are the differences that I saw:

A much darker color in my zone 5 garden

More productive

Taste better than Black Krim

And for those reasons I prefer NdC

It isn't at all unusual to find slight differences and sometime more major ones when supposedly the same vareity has passed down through different hands through the years and in different countries thus end up with one name in English, one in French and BK in Russian as well. And to me this is one good example of that.

The only way for anyone to be satified that there are differences is to grow both in the same season and also note that I grow mine in a zone 5 area.

[Alpinejs]

IMO, Stupice is, indeed very productive. But then, so are dandelions!!

[camochef]

Having grown about 95% of those you've listed, I can honestly say the only one still in my gardens today is Amazon Chocolate. I would also recommend Carolyn's Olena Ukrainian highly, but with the reduction of tomatoes from hundreds of varieties each year to a easier to handle 23 this season it was one of those sacrificed for better tasting and more productive varieties.
I have to agree with Alpinejs on Stupice, I grew a couple a few years back and they were very productive, but there taste was just a hair above being a spitter.
Also found Black Seaman, which is a tasty tomato, to be like a determinate than an indeterminate.
Would also recommend checking into which varieties do well in your area. I'm not certain that your locale would be suited for all that you list.
Wishing you lots of luck in the coming season and feel you might want to deversify your selections a bit more.
Enjoy
Camo

[ddsack]

IMO, Stupice is, indeed very productive. But then, so are dandelions!!

I have to agree with Alpinejs on Stupice, I grew a couple a few years back and they were very productive, but there taste was just a hair above being a spitter.

Well, opinions on taste always vary, but most people grow Stupice because it is early and well suited to short northern seasons, not because it tastes so great. A non-fussy little plant that dependably gives me fruit 3-4 weeks before those big beefsteaks we all are drooling for. I will always have a couple of Stupice plants in my garden just for the joy of those first early tomatoes.

[ljp]

Stupice was among my early tomatoes -- one golf ball sized tomato at a time.

[halleone]

I grew Stupice once..........

[carolyn137]

Both Black Seaman and Southern Nights are determinate PL blacks.They were sent to SSE by Marie Danilenko many years ago b'c at the time she was their contact in the former USSR, now the CIS ( Commonweath of Independent States).

I trialed both of them for SSE along with quite a few others, and despite the fact that I willingly say that with few exceptions, so called blacks are not my favorites, those two were amongst those that indeed were not my faves.

[bwaynef]

Of the Ukrainian/Crimean varieties, I'm only tied to the Black Krim and Olena Ukrainian. For those who are vocally not fans of Stupice, what would you recommend that is tastier as well as productive?

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by bwaynef

Of the Ukrainian/Crimean varieties, I'm only tied to the Black Krim and Olena Ukrainian. For those who are vocally not fans of Stupice, what would you recommend that is tastier as well as productive?

There are three early small reds that I can suggest.

The first is Matina, aka Tamina, which is a lookalike for Stupces, PL foliage and all, but the taste is much better IMO.

The second is Moravsky Div which I like a lot, also PL and most say Det but some say indet. I think there's a thread or two here re this one.

The third is Kimberly, also PL and a compact plant.

All three of the above I think have better taste than Stupice and I'm sure all three have a page at Tania's T-Base website if you want to check them out.

Both she and Jeff Casey at Heirlooms of Ardrie ( Airdrie ?), and Jeff's site is listed in the seed sources here, have lists of early varieties that you can look at as well. There's one at Jeff's site that has Sion as part of the name that should be very good. Jeff also posts here.

There's a couple of others that I could mention, but the three above came to mind ASAP and adding in the Sion one, that's four, I think.

[nancyruhl]

I grew Matina fir the first time this year, and I was very pleasantly surprised with the earlinest and flavor. Grew Stupice long time ago and quit because taste wasn't there. I have been growing Bloody Butcher for my early red, and think that Matina is much better.