kbx question

[DirtyDan]

are all kbx the same?had them last year the whole family loved them I just wanted to make sure I got the same ones.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by DirtyDan

are all kbx the same?had them last year the whole family loved them I just wanted to make sure I got the same ones.

Should be, you are talking potato leaved right?

Worth

[PaulF]

Haven't heard anything that would indicate differences in KBX from different sources. KB has been around a long time and KBX, too. Lots of discussion on the slight differences between KB and KBX. Both or either are excellent choices.

[Fred Hempel]

Here's my take -- It is impossible to "preserve" an OP variety. Even if you prevent outcrossing 100% you can never stop mutation, and independent strains MUST become different.

This is why every time you save seed you may be selecting for or against the traits you like. If you take all your best tomatoes to market, and save seed from the "seconds" you never know whether the features that make them seconds are genetic or environmental. It is why one should always save seeds from the "best" fruit.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Fred Hempel

Here's my take -- It is impossible to "preserve" an OP variety. Even if you prevent outcrossing 100% you can never stop mutation, and independent strains MUST become different.

This is why every time you save seed you may be selecting for or against the traits you like. If you take all your best tomatoes to market, and save seed from the "seconds" you never know whether the features that make them seconds are genetic or environmental. It is why one should always save seeds from the "best" fruit.

Fred, I have a slightly different take on the situation. For instance, I've grown several pre-1800 tomato varieties and they match the original descriptions as well as many from the mid to late 1800's which also match the original descriptions..

I was one of the first to grow KBX when Martha found it, we were at the AOL Tomato Forum at the time. And yes,mutations and cross pollinations are always possible,but it's one of the PL ones that I and some others feel that KBX is identical to KB except for leaf form.

And heaven knows how many times I've posted here that I do NOT always equate a PL version of an original RL as being identical to the original and have explained the various kinds of DNA mutations that can affect more then one gene.

I don't recall anyone here saying they bought or traded a KBX that was RL, but there's alwaysthat first time.

There is genetic heterogeneity within a single variety, there always will be, but it's there only for those who have eyes that they can see it. I mean differences in internode spaces, sutble changes in leaf form, etc, yet the variety can still be IDed for what it is,and remains so.

There's only a few instances where I consider the use of the word strain to pertain to a variety. And I know there are threads here about the several ways in which the word strain has been used.

Carolyn

Carolyn

[BigdaddyJ]

I've grown both plenty. Identical except KBX gets no CRUD. KB is CRUD prone. It's why I only grow the KBX now.

[DirtyDan]

Thanks for the replys.I was refering to the potato leaf Worth1. It just seemed like I had heard of a pink variety. thanks again

[amideutch]

It just seemed like I had heard of a pink variety

Yes, there was some seed going around for Kellogs Breakfast pink in trading circles around 2007-2008. Never did hear of anybody growing them out. Ami

[Tormato]

Kelloggs Breakfast Pink (RL) was found in a pack of saved seed of KB that I sent to David L. (dwlcrl). He sent seeds back after finding the pink.

The tomato was a dud (in a very good growing year). I haven't trialed it since, and I'm not sure if I still have seed.

Tormato

[amideutch]

Kelloggs Breakfast Pink (RL) was found in a pack of saved seed of KB that I sent to David L. (dwlcrl). He sent seeds back after finding the pink.

The tomato was a dud (in a very good growing year). I haven't trialed it since, and I'm not sure if I still have seed.

Good Info. I got some seed from David in a trade. Maybe I'll grow it this year to see what I come up with. Ami

[Fusion_power]

I'm on record saying that KBX is NOT identical to KB. There are three specific traits I can point at that are different between them. KB is susceptible to physiological disorder. KBX produces larger fruit on average. KBX is potato leaf. If I can point at 3 different traits, then I can also state that the varieties involved are close but NOT identical. KBX most likely represents a cross between KB and an unknown yellow potato leaf variety. The cross was not detected until the F2 generation because yellow and potato leaf are recessive to orange and regular leaf which would have come from Kelloggs Breakfast.

DarJones

[carolyn137]

[QUOTE=Fusion_power;320043]I'm on record saying that KBX is NOT identical to KB. There are three specific traits I can point at that are different between them. KB is susceptible to physiological disorder. KBX produces larger fruit on average. KBX is potato leaf. If I can point at 3 different traits, then I can also state that the varieties involved are close but NOT identical. KBX most likely represents a cross between KB and an unknown yellow potato leaf variety. The cross was not detected until the F2 generation because yellow and potato leaf are recessive to orange and regular leaf which would have come from Kelloggs Breakfast.

&&&&&&&&&&

http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/KBX

Just to review what Martha said about the origin of KBX. She got both RL and PL plants from the seeds she bought at a retail place in CA, and I'll let you read the rest.

And I'm on record as saying that except for leaf form which as said above can result with less CRUD than with KB itself,I've grown it many times and still think that as compared with many other PL versions of an RL that little has changed from the RL to the PL

Also good to note that there is heterogenity within a variety as well, and environmental conditions are known to sometimes alter phenotype as opposded to genotype
it's impossible to know how local conditions in any given year can slightly alter a variety, so perhaps that was an issue with you growing it in Alabama, as opposed to others growing it in other geographic areas . And I do know you've no doubt grown it many times for seed production for your plants sales.

Alabama is nothing special in regard to the above, for I've seen it here in NYS as well with other varieties.

Summary? I don't see what you see so do have a different opinon, and nothing wrong about that either.

Carolyn

[tomatoaddict]

I love love KBX. Growing it again this year.

[Gardadore]

Is it possible for the KBX seeds to sometimes produce a regular leaf plant as well? I bought a packet of KBX seeds from a very reliable source. I planted both KB (from a trade) and KBX last summer. All the KB's were regular. I thought I was keeping them straight but was surprised to find a Regular Leaf in one of my KBX cups after transplanting and marking the cups. Maybe I accidentally dropped a KB into the KBX cell but doubt it since I did get 6 plants total - 4 RL and 2 PL. Now I wonder if one of the KBX seeds had, in fact, produced a regular. I will be planting only KBX this summer so will test that commercial packet again. No matter what the KBX PL which I kept were great tasting!

[TightenUp]

i grew KB last season for the first time and it was prob my favorite overall tomato. i have KBX to do a side by side comparison this season. cant wait for the winter to come to an end as im already craving fresh home grown veggies, especially the maters.