Inheriting a clay garden for veggies

[kevn357]

Long story here or short story below

[So my dad is handing over his very large garden to me this year. He lives in Parma, OH and it is a very clay garden. My gardening experience is 5 years of container gardening in the San Diego inland desert and one year in the Parma area last year in a small area with 8 tomato plants, some cucurbits and beans in growbeds with a soil-less mix (peat, perlite, pine bark fines.) It was very productive...

He loved it and wants me to "fix" his garden. I know nothing about clay and only containers.]

short story

[My dad wants we to fix his large clay garden and I know nothing about clay since I'm a container gardener.]

Grow beds aren't an option here with costs.
I have from now until May to make it better. Biggest concerns;

1.Drainage, it has none. A wet spring will kill it for weeks.
2.Fertilizing, I used a lot in my containers and grow beds and I've read clay is a different monster that holds it in.
3.PH levels. I know I need to add a lot of organic material but I'm worried about making the clay more alkaline and adding more npk to the clay.

Thanks for any help!

[Rockporter]

Hi Kevin, I have come across a growing system that I will use when I expand my container garden here in South TX.

The system was designed by Larry Hall and he calls it the self watering rain gutter grow system. I think this is the ticket to success but other's might not.

I think the amount of time and money put into making clay soil good enough to use would be better spent on the above system and you could be using it by the start of spring.

Check out Larry Hall on Youtube here
http://www.youtube.com/user/larrylhall

There is also Square Foot Gardening, starts with brand new mix and is in a 6" deep bed. this design is by Mel Bartholomew and is another way to go. I have containers and I now have two 4x4 beds using Mels Mix and they are doing great. If you compost all you need is your own compost to fill the hole when you remove a plant but start with mels mix in the beginning and I think it is foolproof.

[neoguy]

I grew up in Parma. My mother who came from the old country always threw the veggie scrapes on the garden, she didn't wait for the scrapes to decompose. Obviously, digging the scraps into the ground would be better

As money may be an issue you will probably need to improve sections at a time. Work one area this year, another next year and so on.

Here are things I do,

homemade compost
coffee grounds, free at some Starbucks
alfalfa meal- Wilson's Feed mill on Canal Road
composted chicken manure- also from Wilson's
rabbit manure- free from a non-gardening friend (be careful not to over use the high nitrogen stuff)
if I used straw as a mulch the previous year, I turn it into the ground in the spring
I also use shredded paper as mulch and I turn that into the ground in the spring
in the fall, rake up all of the fallen leaves and layer over the garden and turn into the ground in the spring

Unfortunately, unless money isn't an issue this will be a process, you just have to keep at it year after year. Good luck.

[Redbaron]

Fix it in 3 months???!!! Sorry but that isn't really possible.

What you could do is improve it enough for a decent crop and start the process of fixing it .... which will probably take at least 3-5 years or more, depending on your skill as a gardener.

step 1 Get the soil tested, usually cheaply done through the local extension office or local state run university.

step 2 Furrow it for drainage. The furrows don't have to be deep. 6 inches usually is enough. The furrows should be fairly wide though. Use the soil from the furrows to raise the beds slightly. A good rule of thumb is 3-4 feet wide "beds" with at least 2 feet of furrow making a path between beds.

Step 3 Cover EVERYTHING, furrows and beds with either 6 layers of newspaper covered with 6 inches of hay/grass clippings, or cardboard covered with 6 inches of hay/grass clippings.

Step 4 Wait 3 months and plant in the beds right through the mulch, and ONLY walk in the furrows. At this time make amendments suggested by your soil test.

This is an emergency gotta be done in 3 months without any budget fix it for now plan, not to be confused with the many possible long term strategies.

[Mark0820]

Here is what I did to convert my clay garden.

1. I found some local horse stables on Craigslist that offer free aged horse manure. If it is a large stable, you can haul as many truck loads as you want, and some places will even load your truck for you. They desperately want to get rid of it.

2. I mixed in as much aged horse manure as I could.

3. Then when I planted tomatoes, peppers, eggplants, cucumbers, etc., I would dig a fairly deep (at least 12 ") hole and mix in a lot of the aged horse manure with the clay soil so it was loose. This allows your plants to be in the best possible soil short term while you improve the entire garden long term. It takes longer to plant this way, but it was well worth it.

4. For beans, peas, etc., I would dig a row instead of a hole and use the method from point 3 above.

It works well as long as you have the patience to put more effort into the planting process. Do this for 3 or 4 years, and you will be amazed at what your garden soil will become.

Also mulching with straw and adding other types of compost (grass clippings, composted leaves, veggie scraps, etc.) will speed up the process. I primarily focused on the horse manure because it was available in large quantities for free.

[Dewayne mater]

The only way to fix it in 3 months is to remove a substantial portion of the clay and rebuild the beds out of good growing media. I did that and dug down 24-30 inches and removed that clay, had a truck load of a good composted soil delivered, and then hand tilled in the material mixing in some of the remaining clay in the bottom 6 inches or so. A little clay has some nice properties like holding water.

Barring a complete redo, one additional item I would consider is a product called expanded shale. It will till in with the clay and help break it down over time, especially if you add lots and lots of good materials like others have mentioned above me. Good luck.

Dewayne mater

[Redbaron]

Good point Mark0820!

If kevn357 can get aged horse manure for free, then by all means! Get as much as you can! That will speed up the process a lot. I mentioned my quick fix solution based on kevn357 stating costs were a primary factor in preventing beds. But since free is free and you can't get any cheaper than that unless they actually delivered it free too! That is obviously an option and a good one!

Now if it was ME, I wouldn't even do anything but cover the whole thing in cardboard and manure topped with mulch in a lasagna style. Problem is that takes longer than 3 months to work. Drainage would be an issue that lazy ol me would live with a couple years until the soil mended.

But kevn357 sounds young and strong so he should be able to make raised beds without all the fancy square boards and such. Just hilled up kinda like potatoes. Then mulch (and manure if he can find free like you did) The idea is to provide drainage THIS YEAR, and worms do take some time to dig all those drainage holes! Those little buggars work hard, they really do! But 3 months isn't time enough, especially since most of them are probably hibernating or sleeping or whatever they do in winter!

You are right Dewayne mater but he said costs made that not an option.

[Worth1]

What kind of clay and what color is it?


Worth

[greenthumbomaha]

Most of eastern Nebraska (which is now covered in snow thanks to the blizzard yesterday) is alkaline clay. Do your amendments as everyone above has suggested and don't worry about it being alkaline - the farmers here do fine with what they were dealt .

- Lisa

[kevn357]

Originally Posted by neoguy

I grew up in Parma. My mother who came from the old country always threw the veggie scrapes on the garden, she didn't wait for the scrapes to decompose. Obviously, digging the scraps into the ground would be better

As money may be an issue you will probably need to improve sections at a time. Work one area this year, another next year and so on.

Here are things I do,

homemade compost
coffee grounds, free at some Starbucks
alfalfa meal- Wilson's Feed mill on Canal Road
composted chicken manure- also from Wilson's
rabbit manure- free from a non-gardening friend (be careful not to over use the high nitrogen stuff)
if I used straw as a mulch the previous year, I turn it into the ground in the spring
I also use shredded paper as mulch and I turn that into the ground in the spring
in the fall, rake up all of the fallen leaves and layer over the garden and turn into the ground in the spring

Unfortunately, unless money isn't an issue this will be a process, you just have to keep at it year after year. Good luck.

Hi there! I bought all of my supplies from Wilson's last year for my grow beds and ferts! No one else around seemed to have anything of use. I arrived in June and still pulled off a pretty succesful garden thanks to them.

[kevn357]

Originally Posted by Redbaron

Good point Mark0820!

If kevn357 can get aged horse manure for free, then by all means! Get as much as you can! That will speed up the process a lot. I mentioned my quick fix solution based on kevn357 stating costs were a primary factor in preventing beds. But since free is free and you can't get any cheaper than that unless they actually delivered it free too! That is obviously an option and a good one!

Now if it was ME, I wouldn't even do anything but cover the whole thing in cardboard and manure topped with mulch in a lasagna style. Problem is that takes longer than 3 months to work. Drainage would be an issue that lazy ol me would live with a couple years until the soil mended.

But kevn357 sounds young and strong so he should be able to make raised beds without all the fancy square boards and such. Just hilled up kinda like potatoes. Then mulch (and manure if he can find free like you did) The idea is to provide drainage THIS YEAR, and worms do take some time to dig all those drainage holes! Those little buggars work hard, they really do! But 3 months isn't time enough, especially since most of them are probably hibernating or sleeping or whatever they do in winter!

You are right Dewayne mater but he said costs made that not an option.

Beds aren't an option due to garden size. I'm youngISH, not strong, but motivated to get this done to make my dad happy. He deserves it... I built him a couple of compost bins recently but they won't begin to be half way filled until the grass starts growing and the leaves starts falling. Planning ahead...

Drainage is the key for this year.

Horse manure? I'm not so sure I want to grow plants in clay plus fresh horse dung. Sounds like 10 foot nitrogen plants with no fruit? I can get Alpalca manure though.
I like the lasagna style approach though. I need to either drain or absorb.

[Got Worms?]

I've dealt with clay for the past 37 years.
Right off the bat:
Heavy clay soil......................Cannot be corrected in 3 months
Poor drainage ......................Cannot be corrected in 3 months
PH out of whack ....................Cannot be corrected in 3 months
Fertilization...........................Unless you correct the PH it won't matter.

Be this as it may, you need to start somewhere. So here's my plan.
The number one, without a doubt, absolute first thing to do is take soil samples , and get a soil test done.

Divide your garden into at least 4 areas of equal space and take 1 sample from the center of each area. Samples are taken by using a clean (washed) digging tool (scoop) and scraping the top 2" off before using your scoop to take a sample and put it in a clean baggy. When you have all the samples, dump them all into a larger bag, (freezer bag) and mix well. Send it out or take it to your county extension or private lab. If you can't find a place to do it, you can get a test kit and do it yourself, but you (at the least) need to know the PH before you start anything else.

Once you know your PH you'll have a better idea of what you can add to your clay to condition it. I.E. if your soil is truly alkaline as you suspect, you can use pine needles, oak leaves, acorns, peat moss, etc. to remedy the clay and start to get closer to a 6.5; maybe even use a little sulfur.

If on the other hand, should your soil prove to be acid, (and you are in an acidic region, being east of the lime line); then a little lime would be in order. Composted organic matter (including composted manure) is more or less neutral, will condition the soil and give it some tilth, without raising or lowering the PH so it would be great, if you could get some. Whatever you do, don't add any sand, sawdust, or wood chips. Wood shavings can be added in the fall mixed with leaves and manure and left to rot over the winter. Sand into clay makes concrete. Sawdust mats down and excludes air so it does not break down readily and ties up nitrogen.

Making these additions will tie up some nitrogen in the process of breaking down the carbon in any un-composted organic matter, so I would suggest compensating with side dressings of alfalfa meal or pellets. Other nutrients will be dependent on the test results.

Before you plant make sure you follow Redbaron's advice and dig out your paths and heap the soil onto your beds. Grade your paths to drain the water to the lowest area. Hopefully the lowest area will be away from the garden. If the paths fill with standing water use bricks, boards, blocks etc. to walk. It's how I started out many years ago, to get drainage, and I live on a flood plain. Later on you can think about raised beds (beds can be made any size up to 4' wide), or Hugelculture is another option.

That's enough for now...I'll help if I can, but right now... I need a nap.
Charlie

[Mark0820]

Originally Posted by kevn357

Horse manure? I'm not so sure I want to grow plants in clay plus fresh horse dung. Sounds like 10 foot nitrogen plants with no fruit? I can get Alpalca manure though.

It's not fresh horse dung. It is AGED horse manure. This is an example of what it looks like:

http://cincinnati.craigslist.org/grd/3587966875.html

It is very light and has a texture similar to peat moss. When added to clay soil, that is what makes the soil drain better.

[Worth1]

Not all soil called clay is really clay and not all clay is alike.
Some will hold water for days and some for a few hours.
Some is good enough to make pottery from.
Some is red some is gray.
The best thing to add to clay or clay loam soil is sand and humus.
Then till it to mix it up.

I'm sorry if you didn't take my question about color and type seriously.
But there is no professional way a person could answer your question without the information.
Telling a person to ad this or that without knowing the PH of the soil or the fertility of it is haphazard.
I will not give advice on that basis.
In my opinion.

Worth

[Dutch]

Are clay or hardpan problems in your garden? Gypsum may be just the answer to help break -up and loosen the soil structure. It's not a miracle and it doesn't work over-night, but a three-year program of yearly applications should help improve poor soil conditions. It's easy to apply and relatively inexpensive for the job it does.
One of the biggest problems a home gardener faces in a new or established garden is a clay or hardpan type of soil. Poor drainage, soggy soil, and soil compaction are just a few of the conditions that clay or hardpan soils create.
In a new garden one can work organic humus into the soil to help break-up poor soil. Bark, sawdust, manure, compost, peat moss and soil mulches and conditioners are often used for this purpose. Incidentally, if bark or sawdust are used they will leach nitrogen from the soil, as they decompose, so additional nitrogen will need to be added on a seasonal basis.
But what do you do in an established garden? It would be too much work and take too much time to dig, replant and then recondition the soil. Here's where Gypsum may be just the answer for reconditioning the soil, because it can be applied on the surface soil in the vegetable garden, flowerbeds or on the lawn. In other words it does not have to be worked (cultivated or spaded) into the soil, it can simply be spread on the surface. What does Gypsum do? It has the ability to penetrate the millions of fine clay particles in heavy or hardpan type soils and loosen the soil structure. This process then creates air and moisture spaces that eventually loosen and break-up the soil structure. The only problem is that this doesn't happen overnight, it takes yearly applications, over about a three-year period to get the job done.
Article here; http://www.humeseeds.com/gypsum.htm
Dutch