Bees Endangered, Monsanto

[gardenfrog]

Just a thought...

I've read where chemicals and seeds being sold to famers and gardeners could be largely responsible for the huge drop in the bee population (As well as other pollinators). Under the Endangered Species Act, would it be possible, then, to put bees on the endangered list, halting the harmful activities of companies like Monsanto?

This Saturday (May 25th) there will be a "March Against Monsanto" in most major cities where there is a rally co-ordinator. Check to see if there is a "march" in a major city near you. Share and learn how we can make a difference leading to "Healthy Agriculture"!

How's that for "Food" for thought?!

[Tom A To]

This is only my opinion: The great bee decline is largely a manifestation of news media wishing to drum up business by publishing those doomsday scenarios they are so good at. Bee populations have ebbed and flowed for the fifty million years they have been around. Mankind could not kill all the honey bees even if he wanted to. Look at how hard they tried to eliminate the Africanized Honey Bee. Somehow they keep spreading North. Has mankind ever eliminated ANY insect?

Feel free to rebut.

Monsanto makes Roundup. I love Roundup.

[fredx]

My reply would be there is no reliable geo-chronometer that even comes close to reading the age of this or any other planet in existence to the age you suggested. The salinity of the oceans suggest a young earth-- thousands , not millions. But to each his own and I will leave that--that.

Now as for the bees , no where near as many around here as when I was a kid and I have citrus , jasmine and many other blooming plants here..

You can't touch Monsanto-- WAY to powerful

A wise man once said "Power Corrupts"

[Redbaron]

It's food for thought. Pretty certain that agricultural chemicals are the problem with the bees too. However, I am the kind of guy who skips the marches and works on my small part of the solution instead.

[bughunter99]

Its not just Monsanto. Everything is getting sicker because of massive environmental pollution. Monsanto has no power if people don't buy their products.

People are so short-sighted with their sprays and sprinkles. We are screwed because as a species, we like our instant gratification. Thoughtful preservation, not so much.

[beeman]

Originally Posted by Tom A To

This is only my opinion: The great bee decline is largely a manifestation of news media wishing to drum up business by publishing those doomsday scenarios they are so good at. Bee populations have ebbed and flowed for the fifty million years they have been around. Mankind could not kill all the honey bees even if he wanted to. Look at how hard they tried to eliminate the Africanized Honey Bee. Somehow they keep spreading North. Has mankind ever eliminated ANY insect?

Feel free to rebut.

You don't believe it??? Trust me, as a keeper of bees over many many years, WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM ON OUR HANDS. Hives are dying for no reason that can be agreed on. I have lost 6 out of 7 AGAIN this year.
The latest range of insecticides are proving to be killers of not just honey bees, but all pollinators. Just take some time and WATCH your garden, you'll find far fewer pollinators around now than we had a few years ago.
I am now having to hand pollinate my fruit trees as there is no other way of doing the job.

[gardenfrog]

Roundup kills the vegetation very well, but at what cost? Cocaine does what it is does, too, but at what cost? To me it is a matter of caring enough to make a change for the better.

[tlintx]

I respect your motives, but I doubt the effectiveness of your methods.

First, if the system and Monsanto are as corrupt as is often touted, you're asking the hens to pass judgement on the fox. And then enforce them.

I'm not sure marches are all that effective, especially if the cause is unpopular with the media. I vote with my wallet. That said, it's impossible to boycott a company if you aren't their client in the first place. I discovered this when I tried to boycott TLC's sponsors. Curse you, Nabisco! Make something I want to buy so I can boycott it!

I have wondered, as well, if we could truly support our current population without commercial farming as it exists today? I eat mostly local and grow what I can, but I'm very fortunate and can afford to. Also, I would not starve if my crop failed.

Obviously I think we should be moving towards better practices and sustainability. Just think there are some issues to work out there.

[bower]

On past experience, chemical threats to pollinators are only acknowledged when crops are affected. Blueberry crops failed after spraying the forest for spruce budworm, and only then the research was done and found that the wild bees essential for pollinating that crop were being wiped out by the spraying.

Marches have their place, to bring attention and publicity to issues which are otherwise ignored. Movement of a bunch of human bodies is always newsworthy! I don't generally attend for various reasons, mainly like RedBaron I would rather work directly on a constructive action in my own sphere, since confronting 'the fox' and hoping to get results that way... can be frustrating.

[bower]

'..movement of a bunch of human bodies..' well, this one is being done in style!! There is something very empowering about joining with others around the globe, when the numbers are not-so-tiny...

Thanks for the heads up, gardenfrog.

http://occupy-monsanto.com/march-aga...o-may-25-2013/

[Crandrew]

http://www.usda.gov/documents/ReportHoneyBeeHealth.pdf

Despite a remarkably intensive level of research effort towards understanding causes of managed honeybee colony losses in the United States, overall losses continue to be high and pose a serious threat to meeting the pollination service demands for several commercial crops.

[Tom A To]

Originally Posted by beeman

You don't believe it??? Trust me, as a keeper of bees over many many years, WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM ON OUR HANDS. Hives are dying for no reason that can be agreed on. I have lost 6 out of 7 AGAIN this year.
The latest range of insecticides are proving to be killers of not just honey bees, but all pollinators. Just take some time and WATCH your garden, you'll find far fewer pollinators around now than we had a few years ago.
I am now having to hand pollinate my fruit trees as there is no other way of doing the job.

Believe what, exactly? That there is an ebb in the number of bees? I believe that, yes. That it is unusual? No, I don't believe that. That bees will disappear? Nope, don't believe that one either.

I have millions of bees hanging around my property so no problem there. I lose one or two hives per year over Winter. Same as always and within the "normal" envelope.

If you talk to the beekeepers who have been doing it for many years, and if you research back in Langstroth's time, you will hear and see that there have been periods similar to this one, where bee populations drop off without rhyme nor reason. But they always rebound and come back, only stonger. Remember when Varroa mites were new and signaled the end of the world as we know it? According to the papers, that is. Turns out it didn't, especially with the advent of small cell hives where it is non-existent.

[gardenfrog]

The moving of a bunch of people, march or otherwise, is not effective in itself. The "awareness" of such an event is the payoff. It is like our government. A government unchecked is not, in any sense, a FOR the people or BY the people. This march on Saturday will not be attended by those that are used to rolling on their backs and showing their bellies. I believe you have to respect those that have enough conviction to push themselves away from Spongebob and try to make a difference.

[tlintx]

Originally Posted by gardenfrog

The moving of a bunch of people, march or otherwise, is not effective in itself. The "awareness" of such an event is the payoff. It is like our government. A government unchecked is not, in any sense, a FOR the people or BY the people. This march on Saturday will not be attended by those that are used to rolling on their backs and showing their bellies. I believe you have to respect those that have enough conviction to push themselves away from Spongebob and try to make a difference.

You are advocating using the esa to punish a company acting lawfully over an unproven possibility of harm.

I stopped believing in the effectiveness of marches recently when tens of thousands of people marched for a cause unpopular in the media. Who covered it not at all, and then only to downplay it.

But hey, maybe your cause will get a pass. It's fashionable to hate Monsanto.

Any thoughts on how we can feed the human population without conventional farming, by the way? I ask because I like the idea of heirloom and local (and I know our current system is very wasteful) but don't want billions of people to starve.


Tl

[gardenfrog]

I don't "hate" Monsanto. I "love" my family. When I see Monsanto's way of doing business all kinds of "red flags" go up. To sneak shady deals with corrupt government officials, through loopholes in our system, with the intent of skirting public knowlege MAY be legal, but it is still wrong. As far as starving millions of people without Monsanto is way off-base! Did you know that the nutritional value of Spinach, as a whole, is less than 25% of what it was 100 years ago?! Bigger, greener etc., does not constitute better.

Again, I don't hate Monsanto. I do love my family, and I don't support ANY company that produces products that endanger the health of our population and planet just because they CAN! Smokers will still defend smoking, despite the health risks. The effectiveness of products like Roundup can hardly be disputed. The "collateral damage" of such products, though, goes way beyond the advantages of quickly killing a bunch of weeds in fields with great-looking, nutritionally-lacking crops.

I'm done with this subject for the moment. Some people you can influence, and others will not be influenced. It is a good thing to have a choice!!!