DE grow plug idea

[aclum]

Hi,

I came across a youtube video by mhpgardener of tomato cloning using root riot grow plugs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERg0-rL6Gy0

I was thinking this would be a neat way to send tomato plants to my brother in Albequerque - wouldn't have to grow a separate plant for him end up shipping largish plants in 20 oz cups and all sorts of packaging. Just send little clones instead......

Later, I was thinking about grafting where you take your scion and rootstock growing in plugs out of their trays and set them out parallel on the table so you can cut them both at once on the same angle at the matching stem diameter point.

If you start your seeds in DE this really isn't possible as all the DE falls off the roots. Then I had a little brainstorm and came up with this "new to me" idea for making DE plugs that don't fall apart.

I had some empty teabags from another project that I got on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/T-Sac-No-Tea-F...s=t-sac+size+1

These bags have a pleated bottom that folds out pretty flat so you can fill them with DE (I'm using Optisorb), and they sort of fill up into a porous but strong cylinder about 1-1/4" in diameter and up to 3-1/2" tall. (I used size 1 teabags but they come in larger sizes). You can put a little twist-em around the top and lay the plug on its side without the DE spilling out.

I just now started a trial starting some bush early girl seeds in the DE plug (sitting -or standing - in a 3oz plastic cup) to see if the roots will grow through the teabag material. I somehow doubt that they will - but would be easy enough to just cut the bag or lift out the seedling with some DE attached to the roots when you want to transplant. I didn't have any available but I think the cylinders would fit perfectly in the little 6 pack inserts for larger trays. The DE plugs are pretty malleable so you can squish them into squarish shapes. Or, until the plants get too crowded, you could just pack a bunch of the plugs together into an aluminum brownie pan or something like that and they would support each other so you wouldn't need the seed starting tray inserts or little cups, etc.

I'll try and attach some photos - although I'm not optimistic about them showing up.

FWIW,
Anne

[tsipgolf12]

Originally Posted by aclum

Hi,

I came across a youtube video by mhpgardener of tomato cloning using root riot grow plugs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERg0-rL6Gy0

I was thinking this would be a neat way to send tomato plants to my brother in Albequerque - wouldn't have to grow a separate plant for him end up shipping largish plants in 20 oz cups and all sorts of packaging. Just send little clones instead......

Later, I was thinking about grafting where you take your scion and rootstock growing in plugs out of their trays and set them out parallel on the table so you can cut them both at once on the same angle at the matching stem diameter point.

If you start your seeds in DE this really isn't possible as all the DE falls off the roots. Then I had a little brainstorm and came up with this "new to me" idea for making DE plugs that don't fall apart.

I had some empty teabags from another project that I got on amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/T-Sac-No-Tea-F...s=t-sac+size+1

These bags have a pleated bottom that folds out pretty flat so you can fill them with DE (I'm using Optisorb), and they sort of fill up into a porous but strong cylinder about 1-1/4" in diameter and up to 3-1/2" tall. (I used size 1 teabags but they come in larger sizes). You can put a little twist-em around the top and lay the plug on its side without the DE spilling out.

I just now started a trial starting some bush early girl seeds in the DE plug (sitting -or standing - in a 3oz plastic cup) to see if the roots will grow through the teabag material. I somehow doubt that they will - but would be easy enough to just cut the bag or lift out the seedling with some DE attached to the roots when you want to transplant. I didn't have any available but I think the cylinders would fit perfectly in the little 6 pack inserts for larger trays. The DE plugs are pretty malleable so you can squish them into squarish shapes. Or, until the plants get too crowded, you could just pack a bunch of the plugs together into an aluminum brownie pan or something like that and they would support each other so you wouldn't need the seed starting tray inserts or little cups, etc.

I'll try and attach some photos - although I'm not optimistic about them showing up.

FWIW,
Anne

What a great idea..I can envision the plug going into a 4 inch cow pot with no fuss if the roots will just grow through the tea bag and then the pot into the soil without ever disturbing the roots. I wonder if a coarser weave filter media would give the roots more encouragement to break through the filter wall. Wouldn't it be great if the cow pot or fibre pot people produced a plug size pot for starting the rootstock seeds in DE. Certainly wish success

RWG

[RayR]

Interesting idea Anne, I have tea bags and granular DE, so I will give this a try.
I'm betting the roots will penetrate the filter bag, I'm just wondering how the filter paper holds up over time. Guess we'll find out.

[tuk50]

Thanks Anne, I've already ordered my tea bags...
Very interesting as Ray said, never heard of empty teabags before, but looks like it might work. For the last couple of years I've gone exclusively to DE for seed starting and like the idea of picking up the teabag with small plant and dropping it intact into the potting cup filled with growing medium. I only grow about a 100 sets each year of tomato, pepper and eggplant, so the extra time to fill each bag hopefully will be offset by the ease of removing each plant from the seed tray with intact roots. thanks again, even old dogs get excited with new tricks....

[aclum]

Hi,

Glad you all like the idea and are giving it a try!

I just started a clone test today using a cutting from one of my grafting experiments and Take Root rooting compound using the tea bag and optisorb method. Will report back on how it works out.

Sure wished the photo function was working better but "oh well.........."

Anne

[Salsacharley]

Hi Anne,

I am wondering why you have to keep the root stock roots in any medium while you do your grafting.

Why can't you just take a root stock out of the Optisorb and lay it down parallel to the scion? What difference does it make if the roots are "free" while you do the graft cuts?
You could leave the roots in a wet towel or some water while doing the grafting.

You will reset the grafted plant back into the Optisorb as soon as your grafting actions are complete, so it seems like it shouldn't be a big deal to let the roots hang for a short time.

Thanks,
Charley

[Dutch]

Great idea aclum !
Here is some more info on t-sac tea filters;

unbleached paper filters
gusset bottom and flap top

size 1 - 2.5 in. W x 3.5 in. height (pouch), 4.7 in. with flap
size 2 - 2.9 in. W x 4.1 in. height (pouch), 6.2 in. with flap
size 3 - 3.3 in. W x 5.4 in. height (pouch), 7.2 in. with flap
size 4 - 4.0 in. W x 6.0 in. height (pouch), 7.9 in. with flap
size 5 - 3.3 in. W x 6.8 in. height (pouch), 8.6 in. with flap

Dutch

[aclum]

Hi Charley,

You don't have to use the plug or pouch method, but (assuming it all works as planned) there's just less stress to the roots and less of a mess on your work table if you use the plug. I've found that when grafting, the less stress to the plants and the fewer variables, the better. Personally, I'd rather graft the scion onto the rootstock while it's still in its pot (even though it's a bit harder to get matching cuts) than uproot the rootstock, line up the cuts and then repot the newly grafted plant.

Dutch,

Thanks for the teabag measurements! For the #1 bag the flat width is 2.5, but when it's filled and in a cylinder form, it's about 1.5 inches in diameter. I don't know what % that is, but all the widths would probably change about the same % when filled.

BTW, noticed some teabags with drawstrings on Amazon. Those might be especially useful for grafting to prevent things from spilling out when laying the plant on its side (as opposed to using twist-ems as I mentioned in my original post).

Anne

[Larry636]

aclum

I have ordered tea bags with strings to try your new method. Thanks for sharing.
I have recently started a few Celeb. seeds for self grafting practice in both opti and ultrasosrb DE and I am finding it difficult to manage moisture. I tend to let the pots get too dry between watering sessions and I am wondering how you approach this?

Thanks again for your post.

Larry

[aclum]

Hi Larry,

I bottom water things planted in DE by putting the pots in a larger container filled with enough water to wick up to the surface of the soil. If I'm using the coarser optisorb (which doesn't wick as well), and things start to dry out a bit after the original bottom watering, I'll sometimes gently top water or, if I have seeds or little seedlings that might be disturbed, I'll remoisten a dried out surface using a regular spray mister.

Hope this helps!

Anne

[rwsacto]

Anne, I like your idea!

Originally Posted by Larry636

aclum

I have ordered tea bags with strings to try your new method. Thanks for sharing.
I have recently started a few Celeb. seeds for self grafting practice in both opti and ultrasosrb DE and I am finding it difficult to manage moisture. I tend to let the pots get too dry between watering sessions and I am wondering how you approach this?

Thanks again for your post.

Larry

Hi Larry,

A couple of thoughts:

1. Keep a dry pot of media nearby. Judge the moisture by holding the dry pot, then holding up the starter pot. If they weigh the same, water.

2. Sometimes I will use a hand sprayer, but only spray the inside of the wall of the pot and keep the area at the stem dry.

Hope it helps,

Rick

[aclum]

Hi Rick,

Thanks !

It's still in the experimental stage. It'll be interesting to see how durable the tea bags are. Too durable so they don't degrade in the soil or let roots poke through or not durable enough so that they fall apart prematurely. Also, I wonder how they might fare with various molds in the air. The uncoated 3oz paper Dixie Cups I used in the past would get moldy and start to fall apart after a period of time - often forcing me to pot-up earlier than I might have wanted to.

Time will tell....

Anne

[Larry636]

Hi Anne and Rick

Thanks to both of you for the guidance. It is apparent that DE requires closer attention to moisture needs than the Pro mix I'm used to. It shouldn't be a problem down the road.

Larry

[Hermitian]

If you add some phosphorescent nitrate compound you could call them Glow Plugs!

[rwsacto]

Hi Anne,

After rereading the thread and watching the video, it seems the issue is handling cuttings in DE for grafting (or shipping).

Here is another way:

Take a 72 plug tray and cut out each cell. Take another and cut into 6 packs. The singles nest closely in the six packs. The large hole in the bottom of the cell shown makes for rapid bottom watering and easy plug removal with a dowel.

R0013905.jpg
R0013901.jpg

To keep the DE from flowing out the bottom, I cut small patches of needlepoint mesh for the bottom. The main advantage of individual plugs for me is the ability to handle individually and re-sort by height to position them closely under slanted lights.

For grafting, you can fashion a small temporary cover (a piece of shamwow might work) to keep the cutting and DE in the cell and use a small, raised cutting board to align cuts with the cell on its side.

R0013903.jpg

These get top heavy and will tip and spill easily when not in a six pack (How do I know that?)

When using peat mix, the plug usually pops out intact.

Just some suggestions,

Hope it helps, (and that you can see the images?)

Rick