soil recipe

nnavarra61 · January 15, 2015

For many years I have tinkered with the soil in my garden trying to improve the quality. We have a basic planting of tomaters as well as zucchini and rhubarb. The rhubarb is pretty easy just dump a bag of manure on it every winter. The zucchini and tomatoes are getting a twist, my garden is sharing ground with a maple. The last 5 years I have added MG garden soil and tilled it in with dry blue with mixed results. Am going to try mixing peat manure and MG garden soil with topsoil, would love to hear any input from tomatoville. I have always had a fair amount of production but this garden (new the last 4 or 5 years), is not giving the yield I'm used to and options to move it are limited, argh it is frustrating.

troad · January 16, 2015

I made a planter box for some blueberry plants somewhat near a maple tree. The berrys did okay for a couple of years then seemed to stall. I eventually dug them up. When I rearranged the planting box I found it was full of roots from the maple tree. FWIW.

beeman · January 16, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by nnavarra61

I have always had a fair amount of production but this garden (new the last 4 or 5 years), is not giving the yield I'm used to and options to move it are limited, argh it is frustrating.

There is a standard reply to situations like this. Get a Soil test! It sounds like you've used up something which needs replacing. Guess work does not work.

Ed of Somis · January 16, 2015

Sometimes it may be difficult to obtain a soil test in your area. An educated guess made by a seasoned gardener can often be right on the money. The problem is: we need to know ALL the info. Obviously, growing under the canopy of a tree is very dicey. Another item you did not address is compost. It is quite important from everything I read. goodluck

paulgrow · January 16, 2015

Most of the Land Grant universities (Extension service) now make it very easy to do a soil test via mail. DON'T GUESS SOIL TEST!!!!

In PA. it is Penn State

Worth1 · January 16, 2015

On this site I have seen recommendations from the testing lab that is contrary to what you would expect.

I will sit on the fence with a soil test recommendation and just go with what the soil test shows is in the soil.
Worth

Ed of Somis · January 16, 2015

P....what is a Land Grant university?

rsg2001 · January 28, 2015

I agree with this. There are Cooperative Extensions all over my region. I did a quick Google search and saw that in Iowa, check with the Iowa State University for one that is located nearest you. Here in upstate NY, the Ulster extension offers soil testing throughout the year. And at its annual garden day in the spring it offers free PH testing. That's how I learned that some of my raised beds at the new house needed to be made more acidic, which is actually a multi-year project. At minimum you should start with a PH test and you can also buy inexpensive ones at the local garden centers or Home Depot or Lowe's if you have one. If you've been adding Lyme every year without testing, you may have raised the PH too high, for example.

Is it also possible that the growth of the maple tree or other trees may have reduced the amount of sun that your plants get? I had that problem where I used to live, and every couple of years I would have the trees professionally pruned to open up more light.

Redbaron · January 28, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed of Somis

P....what is a Land Grant university?

In the US the state agricultural university that runs the extension service is called a land grant university. In Oklahoma it is OSU. But every state has one. They were established by the Morrill Land-Grant acts.

Ed of Somis · January 31, 2015

thanks red!

drew51 · January 31, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

On this site I have seen recommendations from the testing lab that is contrary to what you would expect.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

I will sit on the fence with a soil test recommendation and just go with what the soil test shows is in the soil.
Worth

Soil tests don't show the rate of organic decomposition so really give inaccurate Nitrogen rates in the soil. And many micronutrients are not tested for that could be missing in your soil. I find them of limited use.
For example I had a manganese deficiency in my soil and it was diagnosed through a leaf sample. The soil test told me squat.

beeman · January 31, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by drew51

For example I had a manganese deficiency in my soil and it was diagnosed through a leaf sample. The soil test told me squat.

As with all things there are different standards.
The lab I use offers 3 standard levels of testing, going from basic .PH up to extensive micros. You need to pick the one that suits.

drew51 · January 31, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeman

As with all things there are different standards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeman

The lab I use offers 3 standard levels of testing, going from basic .PH up to extensive micros. You need to pick the one that suits.

Sounds like a good lab! Some labs do micros, but not all micros. I would be surprised if they tested for manganese.Or say silicon a trace micro nutrient to harden cell walls. Besides a good soil test you need to know your plant too. For example many root crops do better in average soil, versus say all compost. Too much of a good thing can be detrimental. What I also don't like about soil tests is in 2 years it tells you nothing. Soon it becomes cheaper to just go to the grocery store.

Uncle Dunkel · January 31, 2015

Soil testing would be the first thing to do. See what you really need. Then I would think about some of the following. Cotton Seed Meal, Alflafa Meal, Kelp Meal, and if you can find a good supply Rabbit Manure.

True Timbers · January 31, 2015

IMO most of you are ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room.!

The tree!!!..they take everything you put on to amend the soil.. Those tree roots will come right up into raised beds and clean house.

Soil test is a waste of money until you deal with the tree. The results and recommendation will be for a garden not a 10 ton tree, because it is a tree that you are growing.

If your not going to cut the tree down, then you are going to need to grow in big growbags to keep the tree roots from eating all your goodies. If not a barrier, then you got to feed the tree too, so plan on huge amounts of organic matter compost each year. Tree stores carbon, so organic matter is what is missing. Yes?

If you want you could put small amounts of synthetics on with each watering. But it would be better to get some organic matter in the soil to improve your CEC. So the soil can hold the nutrients longer.

So

I suggest large grow bags.

I would grow $5000 + in produce in 15 and 25 gallon bags in an area with aggressive trees.

(Compost them tree leaves!).

January 15, 2015	#1
nnavarra61 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Willow Grove, Pa. Posts: 29	soil recipe For many years I have tinkered with the soil in my garden trying to improve the quality. We have a basic planting of tomaters as well as zucchini and rhubarb. The rhubarb is pretty easy just dump a bag of manure on it every winter. The zucchini and tomatoes are getting a twist, my garden is sharing ground with a maple. The last 5 years I have added MG garden soil and tilled it in with dry blue with mixed results. Am going to try mixing peat manure and MG garden soil with topsoil, would love to hear any input from tomatoville. I have always had a fair amount of production but this garden (new the last 4 or 5 years), is not giving the yield I'm used to and options to move it are limited, argh it is frustrating.

January 16, 2015	#2
troad Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Des Moines, WA. Posts: 358	I made a planter box for some blueberry plants somewhat near a maple tree. The berrys did okay for a couple of years then seemed to stall. I eventually dug them up. When I rearranged the planting box I found it was full of roots from the maple tree. FWIW. __________________ There's a fine line between gardening and madness.

January 16, 2015	#5
paulgrow Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Allen Park, MI Posts: 178	Most of the Land Grant universities (Extension service) now make it very easy to do a soil test via mail. DON'T GUESS SOIL TEST!!!! In PA. it is Penn State __________________ A world without tomatoes is like a string quartet without violins. ~Author Unknown~

January 31, 2015	#15
True Timbers Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: Washington State Quimper Peninsula Posts: 38	IMO most of you are ignoring the 800 pound gorilla in the room.! The tree!!!..they take everything you put on to amend the soil.. Those tree roots will come right up into raised beds and clean house. Soil test is a waste of money until you deal with the tree. The results and recommendation will be for a garden not a 10 ton tree, because it is a tree that you are growing. If your not going to cut the tree down, then you are going to need to grow in big growbags to keep the tree roots from eating all your goodies. If not a barrier, then you got to feed the tree too, so plan on huge amounts of organic matter compost each year. Tree stores carbon, so organic matter is what is missing. Yes? If you want you could put small amounts of synthetics on with each watering. But it would be better to get some organic matter in the soil to improve your CEC. So the soil can hold the nutrients longer. So I suggest large grow bags. I would grow $5000 + in produce in 15 and 25 gallon bags in an area with aggressive trees. (Compost them tree leaves!). Last edited by True Timbers; January 31, 2015 at 01:29 PM.

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January 16, 2015	#4
Ed of Somis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Somis, Ca Posts: 649	Sometimes it may be difficult to obtain a soil test in your area. An educated guess made by a seasoned gardener can often be right on the money. The problem is: we need to know ALL the info. Obviously, growing under the canopy of a tree is very dicey. Another item you did not address is compost. It is quite important from everything I read. goodluck

January 16, 2015	#6
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	On this site I have seen recommendations from the testing lab that is contrary to what you would expect. I will sit on the fence with a soil test recommendation and just go with what the soil test shows is in the soil. Worth

January 28, 2015	#8
rsg2001 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Zone 6 Posts: 479	I agree with this. There are Cooperative Extensions all over my region. I did a quick Google search and saw that in Iowa, check with the Iowa State University for one that is located nearest you. Here in upstate NY, the Ulster extension offers soil testing throughout the year. And at its annual garden day in the spring it offers free PH testing. That's how I learned that some of my raised beds at the new house needed to be made more acidic, which is actually a multi-year project. At minimum you should start with a PH test and you can also buy inexpensive ones at the local garden centers or Home Depot or Lowe's if you have one. If you've been adding Lyme every year without testing, you may have raised the PH too high, for example. Is it also possible that the growth of the maple tree or other trees may have reduced the amount of sun that your plants get? I had that problem where I used to live, and every couple of years I would have the trees professionally pruned to open up more light.

January 31, 2015	#14
Uncle Dunkel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Corbin, KY Posts: 74	Soil testing would be the first thing to do. See what you really need. Then I would think about some of the following. Cotton Seed Meal, Alflafa Meal, Kelp Meal, and if you can find a good supply Rabbit Manure.