Color of the hybrid

[MrBig46]

Mother is red, pink father. What will be the color of hybrid?
Mother is pink, red father. What will be the color of hybrid?
Vladimír

[Gardeneer]

The "quot" button did not work.
I am also interested in the answers to your questions.

There is a dominance theory, in color and size.

Gardeneer

[jmsieglaff]

Both cases the F1 is red. Yellow skin is dominate to clear and they share the same flesh color already.

[bower]

Vladimir,
The F1 hybrid will be red. Doesn't matter which is mother or father.

Pink colour is due to clear skin instead of yellow, and it is a recessive trait.

In the F2 generation, you should find 1/4 pink fruit and 3/4 reds.

[Worth1]

Originally Posted by Gardeneer

The "quot" button did not work.
I am also interested in the answers to your questions.

There is a dominance theory, in color and size.

Gardeneer

Gardeneer for some reason some people cant be quoted I have no idea why.

Worth

[Lee]

Originally Posted by MrBig46

Mother is red, pink father. What will be the color of hybrid?
Mother is pink, red father. What will be the color of hybrid?
Vladimír

Yes, as others have mentioned, the hybrid will be red. The yellow skin is dominant as is the pink/red flesh color.

I crossed a red beefsteak with a yellow dwarf. The F1 was a red non-dwarf tomato.

For your cross, if possible, choose the mother as the one with the most recessive traits. This will allow you to determine if the cross was successful the easiest. Leaf type differences can be observed within 3 weeks of sowing seed of the F1...

Lee

[MrBig46]

Thank you for your answers.
F2 generation 1/4 pink fruit- in the third generation will be pink and red tomatoes also?
F2 generation 3/4 red fruit- in the third generation will be all tomatoes red?
Vladimír

[bower]

In the F3, it depends which alleles were present in the fruit you took the seed from.
In the F2, if you find a pink one, all its F3 descendants will be pink.
If the seed is from a red fruit in the F2,
there is a 1/3 possibility that both alleles are 'red', and all its descendants will be red.
but there is also a 2/3 possibility that the alleles are red/pink, like in the F1.
If this is the case, then 1/4 of the offspring F3 will be pink, just like in F1 generation.

[MrBig46]

I have a plant (Ostravské rané) with potato leaves. Correctly are to be RL. When I take the seeds of this plant, there is hope that after sowing may have some plants RL?
Vladimír

[bower]

Vladimir, if a plant has potato leaf (recessive) then it has PL/PL alleles, and no chance that any offspring will be RL unless there is a new cross with a regular leaf plant.

When a plant has regular leaf, we don't know for certain if there is a potato leaf allele present, because regular leaf is dominant. So the alleles might be RL/RL or they might be RL/PL. In the case that you described, the seed of a regular leaf OP was probably saved which had crossed with a PL. The F1 would also be regular leaf, with alleles RL/PL, and if other traits are dominant as in the expected parent, it was grown without realizing that a cross had happened. The seed which produced a PL plant for you is then the F2 generation of the cross, in which recessive traits like potato leaf show up in 1/4 seedlings.

It's also possible for a mutation to cause change of leaf type, but the genetic explanation for that is not so clear to me. For a recessive trait like leaf type, I don't know if a mutation takes one generation or several to show up.

[Lee]

As an example, I took seed from a dwarf, red, RL F2 generation plant.
(One of the original parent tomatoes in the cross was dwarf, yellow, PL).

The F3 generation gave me red and yellow, RL and PL plants, but all were dwarves.

So, Dwarf habit is recessive, once selected, it will always be there.
RL and red are dominant, so there's a chance a recessive PL/yellow will remain in the selection and show up in the next generation....

This is what is hard about selecting for dominant traits!

Lee

[MrBig46]

Thank you for the explanation. It's very interesting. Probably I fail to find a plant with RL, but I will sow all the obtained seeds later this year. Probability plants RL approaches zero.
Tomato Ostraské rané originated sometime before 1955 as crossing Stupice x ??? The main difference from Stupice is RL. Maybe it's Stupice with RL about which somewhere wrote Carolyn.
Ostravské rané is still used (usually about as a mother) for many Czech F1 hybrids.
Vladimír

[ginger2778]

1)So pink flesh, clear skin equals pink, with clear skin having no way to pass on yellow skin genes. So can a mutation get the yellow skin back? I am thinking not likely at all.

2)How did the yellow/pink bicolors evolve?


I like this thread, great way for non breeders to learn a little genetics.

[carolyn137]

(It's also possible for a mutation to cause change of leaf type, but the genetic explanation for that is not so clear to me. For a recessive trait like leaf type, I don't know if a mutation takes one generation or several to show up)

&&&&&&

ThE three major expressions of leaf type are:

PP. homozygous, dominant, RL
Pp. heterozygous, RL
pp. homozygous recessive, PL

I'm using P b'c I can't remember the actual gene designation, but it makes no difference.

I used to think that there had to be two mutations to go from RL to PL, until Keith Mueller reminded of other kinds of mutations that could occur that were spontaneous and such spontaneous mutations are permanent and heritable.

Here are a few of them, these occuring in seed DNA

Looping out where the DNA forms a loop and then the loop is cut off and genes can then dissappear.


Inversions, where a sequence in the DNA reads the wrong way, so transcription and translation are kaput

Repeats. where a specific gene sequence is repeated when it shouldn't be, thus leading to transcription errors.

I knew of all these mechanisms from working with bacteria and bacterial viruses but never thought to apply it to tomato traits until Keith mentioned it to me.

So yes, genetic mutation can lead to RL/PL changes and they are spontaneous and heritable.

Carolyn

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by ginger2778

1)So pink flesh, clear skin equals pink, with clear skin having no way to pass on yellow skin genes. So can a mutation get the yellow skin back? I am thinking not likely at all.

2)How did the yellow/pink bicolors evolve?


I like this thread, great way for non breeders to learn a little genetics.

Marsha, the epidermis genes that control the exterior color of pink varieties having a clear epidermis and red having a yellow epidermis have one of the highest rates of mutation that I've ever experienced in growing tomatoes.

It's the reason that for many years when I'd see such a mutation, a pink becoming red and the reverse, I used to save seeds of both but I NEVER distributed seeds that were not correct for the original color.

Many folks did and do, but I was not one of them.

One example I know of is when I sent Cuostralee ( red) to Glenn Drowns at Sandhill Preservation and in his fields he found one plant that had pink tomatoes and he listed it.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/C...b=General_Info

I didn't take the time to find my latest Sandhill catalog to see if he still was offering it.

So yes, an epidermis mutation can get the yellow skin on the same variety back by mutation.

How did the typical bicolor gold/reddish pink colors evolve. I don't think anyone understands the genetics but it is known that those kinds of varieties first appeared in Germany and the surrounding area and many of the German immigrants to the US brought seeds with them.

If you look at Tania's list of those bicolors there must be over 200 of ones that have been named.

Just down the road from where my brother lives in NC he found a man who was growing one and said it went way back in his family. My brother asked if I wanted him to get seeds for it but I thanked him and said no. I had already grown well over 20 of them and yes, I have my faves, but they are pretty much all the same.

And there are others that aren't family heirlooms that came from accidental Cross pollination, such as Lucky Cross and Little Lucky.

Carolyn, who started this post two hours ago, but couldn't get back to finishing it until now.