When can you name a F1 hybrid?

PureHarvest · December 31, 2015

So let's say you cross 2 open pollinated named varieties.
You now have a hybrid. When can it be named a new variety?
Do you have to go through research protocol to find out that there are no others like it?
If so, how do you do that?

jmsieglaff · December 31, 2015

Since a lot of F1s have secret parental lines you'd never know for sure. Maybe make a check of the two parents in a web search of nothing shows up, go for it. Or maybe wait until you grow out the F1 and if it something special that should be shared then maybe that's the more appropriate time to name an F1. Just thinking out loud.

travis · December 31, 2015

Are you talking about professionally developed hybrids with the intent to sell certified F1 seed on a continuing basis, or the hobby tomato breeding currently raging among home gardeners who frequent this and other tomato discussion boards?

PureHarvest · December 31, 2015

Travis, both.

Worth1 · December 31, 2015

What if a person accidentally came across sun gold while they were breeding and crossing plants?
Yours is a secret and so is theirs, and you wanted to commercially sell the seeds.

Worth

PureHarvest · December 31, 2015

Travis, my thought arose from contemplating doing a cross of two heirlooms i like. That, and reading up more lately on the rage with hobby breeding you mentioned (ive grown many years and never done a cross. How did I not get sucked into this earlier??!).
Basically, my thought was: "self, what if the resulting F1 was really cool looking, tasty, and productive? Can I now name it? That would be cool. Of course I could, b/c who could stop me."
But I wanted to know if that is uncool around here because it could cause confusion if I share seeds and this F1 has already been done by someone.
I assume that selling it commercially would mean proving that you have a distinct CV that could be registered somewhere and published.

maf · December 31, 2015

No reason not to name an F1 as long as the cross is not an exact duplicate of an existing named hybrid. There are not that many distributed "hobby" F1 varieties so the chances of duplicating an existing one would be quite small. As mentioned above somewhere, most of the commercial hybrids come from crosses between in-house developed breeding lines.

Worth1 · December 31, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

But I wanted to know if that is uncool around here because it could cause confusion if I share seeds and this F1 has already been done by someone.

My thoughts on this is if you think it is okay then it is okay.
If you think it is wrong then it is wrong.
You will always have people agree and disagree with you.

Worth

Fred Hempel · December 31, 2015

You can name a hybrid whenever you want to.

But if you want to share your hybrid -- you will need to share only F1 seed from a cross you make. This will greatly limit your sharing, until you master crossing.

You can't share a hybrid by saving seed from a hybrid. It won't be a hybrid anymore.

Also, before you share your hybrid, it would be good if you grow out a decent sized population of the seed you think is hybrid seed -- to make sure you really have the crossing/hybrid-making process down.

Fred Hempel · December 31, 2015

Making hybrid seed is definitely not trivial. Particularly when starting out.

AlittleSalt · December 31, 2015

I have grown a couple of accidental crosses. When I share seeds, I make sure to let whomever I'm giving them to that they are an accidental cross. I did give them both a name so that I could keep up with the seeds easier. I also keep up with how many times I've grown them. Both are F3:

Zap Cross = a cross of Zapotec and ? Some fruit are round and some Zapotec shaped - both are large cherry size.

VHS Cherry = a cross of Riesentraube and ? Fruit look like a Valentines heart. Large Cherry size. A multiflora.

PureHarvest · December 31, 2015

Duly noted and understood guys.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
I'm just gonna try for fun. Not my main goal in the tomato realm but I've always wanted to try.
I've been into horticulture since I was 12. Along the path, I always thought it would be extremely satisfying to discover a new variety of something so that I could name it. This was in the ornamental horticulture world. Came close with a sport of an ivy that looked just like the spaceship Luke flew in the original Star Wars. Was gonna call it Hedera 'X-wing Fighter'.
I failed on rooting it and it died. The mother plant never made another. I searched pics for months and never saw anything like it.
So I figured my chances of finding something along the way were slim.
Then I realized how fast u can crank out stuff with a plant like tomatoes.
Can't wait to share here if I can hit the genetic lottery.

RJGlew · December 31, 2015

Quote:

Originally Posted by PureHarvest

I'm just gonna try for fun. .

There are a couple of good YouTube videos on what to do. Good luck.

NarnianGarden · January 1, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by Worth1

What if a person accidentally came across sun gold while they were breeding and crossing plants?
Yours is a secret and so is theirs, and you wanted to commercially sell the seeds.

Worth

That would be nice... perhaps an upgraded version of SunGold that is less prone to cracking.

Worth1 · January 1, 2016

Quote:

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

That would be nice... perhaps an upgraded version of SunGold that is less prone to cracking.

From what I have heard SunGold came out of Japan.
These people are known to go to the extremes with things, who knows what they did to develop it.
Worth

December 31, 2015	#1
PureHarvest Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Mid-Atlantic right on the line of Zone 7a and 7b Posts: 1,369	When can you name a F1 hybrid? So let's say you cross 2 open pollinated named varieties. You now have a hybrid. When can it be named a new variety? Do you have to go through research protocol to find out that there are no others like it? If so, how do you do that? Last edited by PureHarvest; December 31, 2015 at 12:00 PM.

December 31, 2015	#7
maf Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: England Posts: 512	No reason not to name an F1 as long as the cross is not an exact duplicate of an existing named hybrid. There are not that many distributed "hobby" F1 varieties so the chances of duplicating an existing one would be quite small. As mentioned above somewhere, most of the commercial hybrids come from crosses between in-house developed breeding lines. Last edited by maf; December 31, 2015 at 02:17 PM.

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December 31, 2015	#2
jmsieglaff Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Southern WI Posts: 2,742	Since a lot of F1s have secret parental lines you'd never know for sure. Maybe make a check of the two parents in a web search of nothing shows up, go for it. Or maybe wait until you grow out the F1 and if it something special that should be shared then maybe that's the more appropriate time to name an F1. Just thinking out loud.

December 31, 2015	#3
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	Are you talking about professionally developed hybrids with the intent to sell certified F1 seed on a continuing basis, or the hobby tomato breeding currently raging among home gardeners who frequent this and other tomato discussion boards?

December 31, 2015	#5
Worth1 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Den of Drunken Fools Posts: 38,539	What if a person accidentally came across sun gold while they were breeding and crossing plants? Yours is a secret and so is theirs, and you wanted to commercially sell the seeds. Worth

December 31, 2015	#9
Fred Hempel Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Sunol, CA Posts: 2,723	You can name a hybrid whenever you want to. But if you want to share your hybrid -- you will need to share only F1 seed from a cross you make. This will greatly limit your sharing, until you master crossing. You can't share a hybrid by saving seed from a hybrid. It won't be a hybrid anymore. Also, before you share your hybrid, it would be good if you grow out a decent sized population of the seed you think is hybrid seed -- to make sure you really have the crossing/hybrid-making process down.

December 31, 2015	#11
AlittleSalt BANNED FOR LIFE Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 13,333	I have grown a couple of accidental crosses. When I share seeds, I make sure to let whomever I'm giving them to that they are an accidental cross. I did give them both a name so that I could keep up with the seeds easier. I also keep up with how many times I've grown them. Both are F3: Zap Cross = a cross of Zapotec and ? Some fruit are round and some Zapotec shaped - both are large cherry size. VHS Cherry = a cross of Riesentraube and ? Fruit look like a Valentines heart. Large Cherry size. A multiflora.