determinate varieties for tomato vinegar

[ukulele01]

Hi folks. I am starting a small business making artisanal vinegar, including tomato vinegar. I live in a rather cool, somewhat rainy area (New Brunswick, Canada). I want to grow my own tomatoes for this. In the past I have always grown indeterminate varieties, but for this purpose I need varieties that ripen at the same time. I am not very knowledgeable about determinant varieties and am looking for some suggestions for varieties. Criteria:

1. determinate with similar DTM, but <80 days
2. compact plant size (I will be growing most in raised beds)
3. Zone 5
4. productive
5. red (preferably)

I think a blend is probably best, of something like three varieties. I have my eye on Mannitoba, Scotia, and Sophie's Choice. I was thinking maybe a cherry variety would be good too, for sweetness.

Thanks in advance.

[Cole_Robbie]

My experience with determinates is that all varieties do not ripen at the same time. Some do, some don't. You won't really know until you grow a variety yourself. Your experience with a variety could also vary from mine, due to difference in climate.

The most predictably short harvest window varieties for me have been very compact plants. They may be too small for your purposes. I like Cole and Maglia Rosa, but they are too small for my high tunnel. A low tunnel would be perfect, I think.

I've been trying for four years now to find determinates I like for my high tunnel. Agatha did well for me, medium-sized fruit. Aura is similar, but saladette-sized. If you want an acidic flavor, Gribovsky (aka Gribovski Gruntoyi 1180), is a red saladette with a strong bite to it. I have another large red that I like called Titan Red, but its 75-ish dtm is a little too long for my high tunnel purposes.

[AlittleSalt]

There is one called Northern Exposure that I have read about. It is a determinate that produces around 70 DTM (Says 67 DTM at the site I just looked up) http://www.burpee.com/vegetables/tom...rod001000.html

I live in zone 8A Texas. I have not grown this one.

[ContainerTed]

Perhaps you should consider some dwarfs. Dwarf Arctic Rose is early (~60 days or less), determinate, sweet, and loads up with 4 oz fruits. You can also use it for canning whole tomatoes. Another one that will also meet your criteria is Iditarod Red.

For a cherry sized, consider Purple Bumble Bee. For a yellow cherry with taste, consider Peardrop. Both are on compact bushy plants and will load up your basket on the countertop. Both are also excellent at keeping well on the counter.

[Gardeneer]

To make vinegar by fermentation, I think you have to make wine (alcohol) first then convert itinto vinegar. The higher the percent of alcohol the higher percent of acetic acid will be. And for higher percent of alcohol you would need higher amount of sugar (brix ). But the of course you can cheat by adding sugar to tomato juice.

[oakley]

If you want one big yield you will need to stick to one variety probably. Or, if artisan, you could just #your batches, say batch 102 of 2017. I only make about 5-10 gallons a year, this year only 2 as i have much left from last years huge harvest.
I make Peary, AC, concord grape, and a tom/AC blend, (the apples add some sweet).

How many gallons do you plan to make? Realize that once fermented your tom vinegars will be very similar in taste and can be blended. Subtle differences in color, aroma, and taste for sure but not like the differences in pear vs apple vs tom. Or you could name your batches after the variety.

[AlittleSalt]

ukulele01, I just noticed that this was your first post. Even though you joined the same year that I did. I'm glad to see you posting.

[oakley]

I pass through a few times a year and have picked up packets of Scotia and Manitoba i'll be trialing next season. SunGold should do well for you as a cherry. You really could add 10% apple or pear to your ferment for sweetness.
Boats, (?), is a brand locally in NovaScotia i have been buying the past few years and they are now making a Perry and a Blueberry vinegar so in just a few years have been doing well i've noticed.
(i don't have a container here as we used it up but i think it is 'Boats' brand. )

Oh here it is...Boates. i have a squirt left. It is good but could be better. I can just barely tell it is made with blueberry. But not really. (i prefer un-pasturized). So you do have a market as not much in your area at all like we have in NYC.

I just added the stem ends and butt ends of mixed September toms to my ferment with apple and pears. The tom slices i freeze for winter salsa. (but i am small scale).

[ukulele01]

Thanks for the welcome and great replies. Much appreciated.
In answer to some of the questions/comments, I have not heard of anyone making/selling vinegar in New Brunswick, but that does not mean they don't exist. I do know there has never been anyone else making/selling it at the farmer's market in Fredericton.

Yes, I will have to make a tomato wine first. There is very little info about making vinegar on the net; luckily I found a great book on the subject, which I am relying on heavily.

I will be making around 20L at a time. I am going to start with apple cider vinegar. I currently have a batch of apple cider, made from my own apples, fermenting into hard cider; when it is done, it will become my first batch of vinegar.

I won't get to make a batch of tomato vinegar until next year, not unless I do a blend of apple cider and canned tomatoes, which might not be a bad idea! Meanwhile, over the winter, I hope to make banana vinegar, and stout vinegar.

For some reason that Boates website is not working for me....How much are they asking for their vinegar Oakley?

I am probably six months away from having a table at the market.

Thanks again to all.

[Patihum]

You might want to consider Bison. It's red, determinate and at 65-70 days fairly early. When I grew it in 2014 I had 61 tomatoes all set at the same time and ripened over a two week period. They averaged around 3oz each.

[ukulele01]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

My experience with determinates is that all varieties do not ripen at the same time. Some do, some don't.

Thanks for that. I thought all determinates had a short harvest window and would not continue to produce more tomatoes, so that was a misunderstanding on my part.

I notice that in the description of some varieties it does mention they ripen all at once, Heinz 1350 for example, and Bison (thanks Patihum).

Scotia is a variety to me available locally. What have experiences been with this variety: does it have a concentrated fruit set? If not I may resort to buying Heinz 1350 or Bison seeds online.

Thank you.

[oakley]

Odd about the Boates site. I can't find anything but a youtube video. I only mentioned them because i noticed just a few years ago a plastic jug offering...then the glass bottles, then more varieties guessing they are one in a few in the area and getting successful.
In fact, they might be pricing themselves too high. For pricing, i don's see it on my bottle. Just guessing 6-7canadian dollars. I purchased for gifts for neighbors that took care of mail and some minor grass mowing while i was out of town. (we have a home in Newfoundland).
So we stop at Masstown Market on the way up. Where i bought many local seeds.

I will and should encourage you to start a small batch of vinegar now. From some local organic apples and some tomatoes if you can find some. Study now for next season.

This is a few i make...concord grape and mixed fruit...

[Gardeneer]

I buy cheap wine ( $3 bucks per bottle ) and make vinegar from it.