The Color Black

[Starlight]

There is a whole array of colors of tomatoes and description of those tomatoes. I have everything from white, red, pink, green, blue, yellow, orange and brown.

While getting my seed together for this year, I noticed several that have "black" in the name or the description. Now I've grown Black Master and Black Cherry and I know those tomatoes I ate were not black, so where or how does the word black come about in a tomato name and descriptions?

Just curious.

[Gardeneer]

Originally Posted by Starlight

There is a whole array of colors of tomatoes and description of those tomatoes. I have everything from white, red, pink, green, blue, yellow, orange and brown.

While getting my seed together for this year, I noticed several that have "black" in the name or the description. Now I've grown Black Master and Black Cherry and I know those tomatoes I ate were not black, so where or how does the word black come about in a tomato name and descriptions?

Just curious.

I agree. None of those tomatoes with "black" in the name are black. I call them "dark" or maybe "brown" or "purple"

[AlittleSalt]

Check out this one: Black Beauty http://www.rareseeds.com/store/veget...ld-boar-farms/ I've got one planted out. The link goes to this picture as well as other Wild Boar Farms tomatoes.

[Cole_Robbie]

The antho varieties are the closest to actual black in color, but it is more like a midnight blue.

Black, chocolate, and purple are synonyms in regard to tomato color, at least from what I can tell.

[cloz]

I grew Black Beauty last year. Plant was hearty, disease free and very productive. Taste not so good. I most likely won't grow it again anytime soon.

Cloz

[MissS]

"Black" is just a generic term for dark tomatoes. It seems to has a different meaning for each and every person. In the old days, "purple" was used to define pink tomatoes which is why we have things named like Aunt Ginny's Purple, which of course is a pink tomato.

Today, a "black" tomato can be brown, purple or what is called blue. Here again is one that is not, there is not a tomato that is blue.

[KarenO]

A black tomato is a tomato that retains chlorophyll inside when fully ripe. The combination of the green chlorophyll with other pigments such as lycopene give a darker colour to the interior of the tomato. The epidermis can be either clear which gives the fruit a purplish tone or yellow which gives a more mahogany brown tone. "Black" is a generic term for red or pink tomatoes that feature this retained undegraded chlorophyl when ripe. The flavour is different as a result and the gel surrounding the seeds is green. The tomato may or may not also retain dark green shoulders when ripe depending on the variety.
"Blue" or high anthocyanin tomatoes are a separate type. These tomatoes have a light sensitive pigment in the epidermis only (usually) which intensifies and darkens in response to exposure to sunlight giving a dark purple/navy blue colour which can appear black when exposed to full sun.
I (and others) would generally refer to these as blue or "high Antho" or just Antho referring to the presence of the pigment anthocyanin. Often the foliage and stems of these plants shows purple as well. They are not referred to as black tomatoes unless they also have an interior that shows the retained chlorophyll in the tomato flesh and gel
Clear as mud?

KarenO

[KarenO]

The tomato in my avatar is a black tomato. The clear epidermis gives it a purple tone rather than brown and although ripe it has a lot of green still showing in the shoulders. That's an example. Google chocolate Cherokee for an example of a black tomato with a yellow epidermis to see the difference.
KarenO

[carolyn137]

This is MUST read for any one interested in the history of so called black tomatoes, there are no truly black ones as you'll see.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=25916

I could go back to the Legacy Forum and pull up the thread about TRUE Black Brandywine, a very interesting thread where Tom Wagner also gave his opinion. And if any of you are interested you could grab that link as well.

Carolyn

[Worth1]

A good friend of mine always said his youngest daughter was so black she was blue.

Worth

[Starlight]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

The antho varieties are the closest to actual black in color, but it is more like a midnight blue.

Black, chocolate, and purple are synonyms in regard to tomato color, at least from what I can tell.

Your a market grower. How do you get somebody to buy a tomato plant with the name black in it or explain the tomatoes description is a black beefsteak and not have folks walk away from it thinking it actually will be a black colored tomato?

Originally Posted by MissS

"Black" is just a generic term for dark tomatoes. It seems to has a different meaning for each and every person. In the old days, "purple" was used to define pink tomatoes which is why we have things named like Aunt Ginny's Purple, which of course is a pink tomato.

Today, a "black" tomato can be brown, purple or what is called blue. Here again is one that is not, there is not a tomato that is blue.

For sure, though who knows maybe someday there will be a true blue tomato. My OSU ones were purple, not blue.

Originally Posted by KarenO

A black tomato is a tomato that retains chlorophyll inside when fully ripe. The combination of the green chlorophyll with other pigments such as lycopene give a darker colour to the interior of the tomato. The epidermis can be either clear which gives the fruit a purplish tone or yellow which gives a more mahogany brown tone. "Black" is a generic term for red or pink tomatoes that feature this retained undegraded chlorophyl when ripe. The flavour is different as a result and the gel surrounding the seeds is green. The tomato may or may not also retain dark green shoulders when ripe depending on the variety.
"Blue" or high anthocyanin tomatoes are a separate type. These tomatoes have a light sensitive pigment in the epidermis only (usually) which intensifies and darkens in response to exposure to sunlight giving a dark purple/navy blue colour which can appear black when exposed to full sun.
I (and others) would generally refer to these as blue or "high Antho" or just Antho referring to the presence of the pigment anthocyanin. Often the foliage and stems of these plants shows purple as well. They are not referred to as black tomatoes unless they also have an interior that shows the retained chlorophyll in the tomato flesh and gel
Clear as mud?

KarenO

Yep, sure is. Gotta ya! Thanks! I now have a better understanding not only for myself, but to explain to folks too.

Originally Posted by KarenO

The tomato in my avatar is a black tomato. The clear epidermis gives it a purple tone rather than brown and although ripe it has a lot of green still showing in the shoulders. That's an example. Google chocolate Cherokee for an example of a black tomato with a yellow epidermis to see the difference.
KarenO

If you wouldn't have said that was a black, I would have just called it a dark purple. It's a nice looking tomato. I look at it in your avatar all the time.

Originally Posted by carolyn137

This is MUST read for any one interested in the history of so called black tomatoes, there are no truly black ones as you'll see.

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=25916

I could go back to the Legacy Forum and pull up the thread about TRUE Black Brandywine, a very interesting thread where Tom Wagner also gave his opinion. And if any of you are interested you could grab that link as well.

Carolyn

Thanks Carolyn! Took a bit to read through the threads, but sure was some interesting reading about the history. Wonder if anybody has gotten anymore information to add to the thread?

[Cole_Robbie]

Originally Posted by Starlight

Your a market grower. How do you get somebody to buy a tomato plant with the name black in it or explain the tomatoes description is a black beefsteak and not have folks walk away from it thinking it actually will be a black colored tomato?

Good question. On the bright side, it is at least not as difficult as trying to explain a green-when-ripe variety.

I had a customer last year looking at plants of Tasmanian Chocolate, who was baffled at the word Chocolate, and then asked me if it was going to look "like a turd in a punch bowl."

[psa]

Green when ripe is by far the hardest thing to explain to customers as a plant seller...

For black/purple/brown we talk about deeper, darker, smokier shades. This is apple country, so sometimes we talk about the difference in apple varieties.

I've often dreamed about setting up a small heat and lights operation to grow some of the tomatoes so that we can have them on hand when selling plants. Photos are deceptive at retail.

[NarnianGarden]

Originally Posted by Cole_Robbie

Good question. On the bright side, it is at least not as difficult as trying to explain a green-when-ripe variety.

I had a customer last year looking at plants of Tasmanian Chocolate, who was baffled at the word Chocolate, and then asked me if it was going to look "like a turd in a punch bowl."

LOL. You do have some customers... I have heard all kinds of comments on my tomatoes, but never anything that stupid... Eating chocolate doesn't bother people, but a dark colored tomato fruit does give them toilet associations?
Are folks really that ignorant?
I should send them a basketful of our traditional Easter pudding called 'mämmi'. it really does look and taste like something produced in the human body...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M%C3%A4mmi

[loulac]

Originally Posted by NarnianGarden

I have heard all kinds of comments on my tomatoes, but never anything that stupid...

We could start a whole thread on stupid remarks heard on markets.
Every year there is a gardening fair in my place where people bring their products, don't sell them, everything is free. I bring seedlings and every year a visitor asks me if my tomatoes taste good. I stick to the same annwer, used by Joseph in the same circumstances : "they are awful, the worst I could find, just to annoy people.