Marion

[Miss_Mudcat]

Carolyn, perhaps you can help me since you are familiar with this variety. I spoke to my Father-in-law today, and he says that Marion was around long before 1960. Is it possible there was another? I did a GOOGLE search and came up empty. I am hoping that you or another researcher has access to more information.

Thanks!
Lisa

[Fusion_power]

Marion - Breeder and vendor: South Carolina Agric. Expt. Sta., Charleston. Parentage: (Pan American x L. pimpinellifolium ) x (Pan America x Homestead). Characteristics: 1 week earlier and larger fruit than Rutgers. Resistance: fusarium wilt and gray leaf spot. Similar: Rutgers. Adaptation: southeastern United States. 1960.

This variety is common here in Alabama. Its grown out by Bonnie plant farms and sold in many seed store, co-ops, etc. Its not pre-1960.


Homestead - Breeder and vendor: Florida Agric. Expt. Sta. and the Southeastern Breeding Laboratory, USDA, Charleston, South Carolina. Parentage: ((Victor x Dobbies Champion) x Pan American x Rutgers. Resistance: fusarium wilt. Similar: Rutgers. Adaptation: Florida. 1952.

Pan America - Breeder: USDA, Plant Industry Sta., Beltsville, Maryland. Parentage: PI 79532, Lycopersicon pimpinellifolium on Marglobe; hybrid backcrossed three times to Marglobe. Resistance: high to fusarium wilt. Similar: Marglobe. Adaptation: regionally to all sections of the United States where fusarium wilt is prevalent. USDA Circ. 611, June 1941. 1941.

Interestingly enough, the database does not contain a valid reference to Rutgers.

Fusion

[TomatoDon]

Miss Mudcat...

I asked around once, and heard that Marion was one of the favorite varieties here in MS from our young days. That may have been the yummy variety that both of us ate. I remember the flavor (regardless of variety) as being tart and salty. Love that. Marion is still available here, but Better Boy has taken over now. It's a great one, too. This will be my first year with Heirlooms, and I'm really looking forward to it. They say, generally, that Heirlooms are just a whole higher class in taste.

Don

[gflynn]

Don,

Its more then just a step above. Its a step above in flavor. It variety as well. Its even art :-)

Greg

[carolyn137]

Miss Mudcat was asking me about this variety b'c she also posted in the Varieties wanted this AM about it and so we talked about it there and I gave her the same NCSU blurb as Fusion gave here as background.

In that other thread I had initially said that we grew it on our farm and that it was very similar to New Yorker and Valiant and Rutgers, and then when I looked at the NCSU blurb I posted for her I saw that it said it was one week earlier than Rutgers and "similar" to Rutgers.

Fusion, I'm not quite sure I know what you're referring to when you say there's no valid reference in the database to Rutgers, re Marion I assume.

Or do you mean that the NCSU cultivar list doesn't contain a blurb for Rutgers? I didn't look and can't right now b'c I'm on IE and all else I use is back at AOL.

I do know a bit about Rutgers and when it was bred and released in it's orginal form, but I'm not sure that belongs here re the topic of Marion. I'm just not sure what to post here about it, or if I should.

[Fusion_power]

Carolyn,

Rutgers is a parent of Homestead. Homestead is a parent of Marion. Marglobe is a parent of Pan American. Pan American is a parent of Marion. I was showing that Marion is a variety derived from excellent parents.

Unfortunately, the NCSU database does not have a valid entry for Rutgers itself. It has Rutgers 8828 which was selected from Rutgers.

Fusion

[carolyn137]

Thanks Fusion, for that's what I thought you must be referring to, as in no entry for the original Rutgers in the NCSU data base.

Sometimes it really does surprise me when I go looking and expect to find a variety and it's not there.

I think Ramapo F1, bred by Rutgers, was the last one I looked for and didn't find, although I was in contact with some folks at Rutgers about it when I first started to dehybridize it and do know the parents.

And I think you were in contact with perhaps the same folks there based on a comment you made once about them upping the disease tolerance and possible rerelease of it.

Last I knew that was a remote possibility, so I'm glad that those who knew Ramapo F1, such as Barkeater, feel that what I selected out was darn close to the F1. But I did have F1 seeds to grow plants to compare with the F2 and F3 selections.

All in all I think the NCSU cultivar database for all the vegetables they list is a wonderful resource.

[Miss_Mudcat]

Gosh, I HATE to tell my Father-in-Law he is wrong. And he was so sure. He gave me the name Marion Hammock (not sure about the spelling), so perhaps there was a very local variety among a few folks who grew tomatoes. He mentioned the date being as early as 1940s.

Lisa

[geoguy_TN]

Originally Posted by Miss_Mudcat

Gosh, I HATE to tell my Father-in-Law he is wrong.

Lisa

That's sarcasm, right?

[travis]

"Unfortunately, the NCSU database does not have a valid entry for Rutgers itself. It has Rutgers 8828 which was selected from Rutgers." [Fusion]

Fusion,

Is "Rutgers 8828" also known as "Rutgers Select" commercially?

Ms. Mudcat,

I just walked over to the Post Office and mailed your Marion seeds. The next mail processing will be 2:30 p.m. CST.

I included some Rutgers Select for comparison if you wish. I also included the Brandywine packed by Ferry Morse for Wal*Mart you asked for and some Brandywine packed by Livingston Seed Co., Columbus, Ohio, for comparison if you wish.

We should wait for Fusion's reply as to whether Rutgers Select would offer a fair comparison to Marion, but I think Marion will do well for us here in Indiana if we have another hot summer like last year (Homestead heritage and all).

Marglobe was always my dad's standard for tomatoes in his garden in Leland, MS., so it's contribution to Marion is well taken by me too.

PV

[TomatoDon]

PV, I always ask here, at home, what the old time standards were and they always say Marion and Marglode.

I'll bet 100% of growers here in Yalobusha County (tadpole place) grow Better Boy, with a few others sprinkled in. Really, we are at the mercy of what Bonnie's sends, but that is no criticism. At least we have a good supplier that works hard and gives the people what they want. I'm just glad I've gotten into the Heirloom game now, which all seem to agree is a step above. I know nothing about it yet, but it sure is fun learning all this stuff. Sorta like learning to crappie fish with Slater's jigs (Indianola) on Grenada Lake. You know what I'm talking 'bout.

Now, when are you gonna come down and let me treat you to a steak at Doe's Eat Place in Oxford? They've branched out from the Delta to the Hills now. And just as good. Again, you know what I'm talkin' 'bout. MissMudcat does, too. I bet Fusion does, too. Others, as well.

Most cordially,

Don

and speaking of Leland...

"Look on yonder's wall...hand me down my walkin cane...
Look on yonder's wall, hand me down my walkin cane...
Well, I'm lookin out yo windo baby, and yonder come yo mane...

I know yo mane he been to the war, I know he had it rough,
I don't know how many mens he kilt, but I know he done kilt enough...

Look on yonder's wall...hand me down my walking cane...
Well, I'm lookin' out yo windo...and baby yonder come yo mane..."

Elmore James...The Mississippi Delta...God Bless It. Always.

[travis]

Lake Grenada brings back memories ...

My dad took me up there to cane pole for bass around the Cypress with minners back in the late 50s and early 60s. I remember a boat comin' in with an old man, his wife, and a big stringer of crappie slabs with parchment papery lips and mouths that coulda sucked down an apple. Good Gawd!

Take down my cane, um hum
An' pack up my trunk
Ain't had no whiskey boy
Since I las' wuz drunk
Oh ain't had no whiskey, um hum
Since I las' wuz drunk
No, ain't had no wiskey
Since I las' wuz drunk

My walkin' shoes
Gwahn t' leave dis room
Dat mean dis boy
Gwahn t' dust his broom, oh yeah
Dat mean dis boy
Soon got to dus' his broom
Sure as fact that
Dis boy gwahn dust his broom

If Deer Creek wuz whiskey
An' I wuz a duck
Dive to da bottom
An' ne'er come back up, oh yeah
Deer Creek wuz whiskey an'
I wuz a divin' duck
Dive down tha bottom
An' nebba come back up

Don,

If I come down to fish, does that include topwater pluggin' for bass at night?

Regards, PV

[geoguy_TN]

I grew Marion last year and it was fine. Not great, just fine/good (taste-wise). It did produce a fair amount of tomatoes, but it was late compared to everything else in my tomato garden, including Brandywine. The stink bugs loved it.

-Pete

[Miss_Mudcat]

Geoguy - No, that wasn't sarcasm. I really LOVE my Papa-n-law. He's a gentle old soul and a kindred spirit. He relates gardening to all things in life, as I do. I really wanted him to be right about Marion, but perhaps if we dig deeper we'll find an even BETTER tomato that his father grew.

It sounds like Marion was designed for the hot southeast, and as I've experienced growing tomatoes in MS, AL, IN and WI... none compare, in my opinion, to those acid-tart tomatoes from WAY down south, further than TN and north AL, grown in that hot, sandy soil.

Papa Vic, thanks so much for sending the seeds, particularly Marion! I'm excited to experience growing that one and my 10-year-old garden buddy is looking forward to it too!

Don, I know what you're talking about!

It's a special pleasure to speak to you gentlemen from my home state. In a way, it makes me lonesome for it, but it's a joy, too!

Lisa

[Fusion_power]

Rutgers Select is an improved version of Rutgers. I can't locate my reference on it right now but my memory says it was for slightly enhanced disease tolerance and better production. I'm not sure but think it had added Verticillium tolerance. The original Rutgers was tolerant to Fusarium race 1. Marion is Fusarium race 1 and leaf mold and gray leaf spot tolerant which is a big help in some seasons with lots of rain and cracking fruit. Both are normally listed as indeterminate but my personal experience is that they are more of a compact indeterminate.

Rutgers still has a big following here in the south because of its consistent good flavor. However, its lack of Nematode tolerance limits its use to home gardens.

Fusion