anyone recognize this tomato?

[tjg911]

A fellow gardener/co worker was telling me about a tomato that he grew or had that was really good, years ago. I don't have much to go on but maybe this will ring a bell.
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The tomato is an odd color, red but dark. So right off the bat I said like a purple or black tomato and he said yes, he's seen these from my garden over the years.
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The tomato is lobed or has ridges like a green bell pepper but not stocky like a bell pepper. The size is 3" wide and from the top to bottom about 6-7" long. It retains the lobes from top to bottom and is blunt/rounded at the bottom like a bell pepper.
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He said it made excellent sauce but did not say whether it was good for eating. He said it did not have many seeds in it.
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The source was an old man who came here from Italy so it seems reasonable that the seeds were brought here by him from Italy. Of course the man died and no one was able to find his seeds and no one has been able to grow this tomato again.
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I think the width/length ratio is unusual, the fact that it is lobed from the top to the bottom like a bell pepper is unusual and it's a purple or brown or black variety may all add up to an identification. Of course I realize there's several thousand varieties but maybe someone will recognize this tomato and be able to identify it and a source for the seeds. It may be possible to start seeds if I can find them say in no more than 2-3 weeks and of course there's always next year too. We all gotta figure there's someone out there, here or in Italy, growing these.
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Thanks,
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Tom

[feldon30]

I think hearing about a purple/black variety coming from Italy is just plain unusual, but what do I know?

To my knowledge, the black varieties we have are from Eastern Europe and Tennessee (What a combination ).

[carolyn137]

Tom, so are you saying it is or isn't a so called black tomato?

Italy is not a place where black tomatoes are from, that's for sure, so that's why I ask.

it sounds to me like a long deep dark red, but with those ridges you describe I can't think of anything similar.

The word costoluto in Italian means ridged or ribbed but I don't know of any costoluto varieties, all about the same but named for the area from where they originated from, that looks like that, for they're flattened, (oblate), and round.

So I'll be curious to know of anyone else here knows of a tomato with those traits, bc I sure don't. Of that general shape, yes, as in a dark red, yes, but not a black as you've suggested, and not ridged all the way from top to bottom as you've also said.

[Tomstrees]

Purple Calabash ?

~ Tom

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by Tomstrees

Purple Calabash ?

~ Tom

Nope, aside from the fact that an old man from Italy, as Tom described him, wouldn't be growing black tomatoes which aren't from Italy, let alone PC which really does have some purple to it ( I loathe the taste, )Purple Calabash is not about 3" by 6" as Tom described.

[tjg911]

Ok, I just spent 10 minutes with Ralph asking all the questions I can think of. Unfortunately, he did not want to go to the TGS website here in work to look at colors of brown, purple and black tomatoes so I have only a description of the color. I was hoping to get a comparison to something we all know because color, like taste, can be unique.
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The seeds supposedly came from Italy, they did come from the grower's father who was from Italy. The grower was Ralph's neighbor, not a commercial grower. The grower and his father called this tomato a 'pepper tomato' because it had the lobes similar to a green pepper but from the drawing I just saw it is not deeply ribbed or lobed (I'm using ribbed/lobed interchangeably) but rather a visible yet subtle rib/lobe.
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The plants were vigorous growing to 7' like Aunt Gertie's Gold, tall with a lot of foliage (I gave Ralph AGG plants last year so he knows what AGG is). The leaf type was regular not potato leaf. The plant would produce more or less each year which is typical for an OP but it was a good producer in all years.
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The fruits were red but not bright red like Prue. The shape of the tomato was very similar to Prue (when Prue has a tip not a pronounced nipple and is narrow and long vs more heart/roundish as some Prue fruits can be). The tomatoes were a darkish red, he said maroonish, when I said browish red (more red than brown) he agreed, dusky but not dark. I gave Ralph Black Cherry plants the year I grew it and he said the color of Black Cherry was darker and not the color of the 'pepper tomato'. The tomatoes were pointed at the base (I was wrong about them being flat at the base like a pepper) with a small tip but not a pronounced nipple based upon the drawing. He was very excited when I gave him some Prue tomatoes years ago because they looked so similar at first glance to this 'pepper tomato' but again the color was different and so were the insides of the 'pepper tomato'. Typically the fruits were 2"-3" wide at the shoulders which were always green with concentric cracking common and 5"-6" in length. The ribs/lobes ran from the shoulders down to the bottom or near the bottom. Now Ralph said that if the tomatoes were wider (I assume in the 3" range at the shoulder) then they were shorter in length and conversely if the tomatoes were narrower in width (I assume in the 2" range at the shoulder) then they were longer in length. The fruits were very heavy for their size, dryish (in comparison he said that Prue is more juicy), with very few seeds, there were air pockets inside that's how dry they were but very solid and quite heavy for their size. They were not that good to eat fresh and I gather he never used them in a salad or sandwich but they made great sauce. He said that he did not have to add tomato paste when making sauce from these tomatoes.
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Ralph was given the plants from 1976-1978 and grew these tomatoes those years in his garden. That's the last time he saw this tomato.
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So I think that's about all I can tell anyone. I'm sure there many of these stories!
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Tom

[carolyn137]

Tom, it's beginning to sound like so many of the long red pepper shaped, and yes, that's what they're called, varietoes that came from Italy and elsewhere.

Varieties such as Opalka, Howard German, Sausage, Super Italian Paste, San Marzano Redorta , Pepper Shaped, and my newset one Sarnoski Polish Plum, and more, as in lots of entries for similar ones in the SSE Yearbooks.

So that's what I'm thinking right now.

And it's terribly hard for someone to remember exact colors and shades of red and they can vary slightly in color in different seasons.

Well I remember listing Anna Russian as a red, not a pink, the first time I listed it in the SSE Yearbook. So help me, it looked red to me and at that time I didn't know about the difference between a clear and a yellow epidermis.

[tjg911]

Thanks Carolyn. It was a long shot, I hoped I could find it and tell him "here it is". There's just so many tomatoes that fit the shape, size, color, all the various qualities, well there's bound to be dozens or hundreds of similar tomatoes. I was hoping this might be a popular tomato amongst some folks here that they'd recognize it. I suspose that could happen but as you said there's a lot of possibilities. It' such a thrill to hear of a tomato like this, unknown to so many but loved by a few!
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Tom