OTV Pink?

[korney19]

I can't figure this one out... how can I get a pink from OTV? I planted OTV amongst mostly reds & probably even RL reds last year, saved seeds and this year my OTV is pink.

If it got crossed with a red, it should be red.

If it got crossed with a pink, it should be red.

If it got crossed with a yellow, it should be red.

Mine is pink with orangey shoulders...

[nctomatoman]

Is it potato leaf?

Could be temperature related (pigments don't develop very well when it is too hot).

could it possibly be a stray seed?

Otherwise....

[korney19]

It's PL, definitely pink not red. Can't be stray seed, matter of fact I planted directly from the ziploc marked "2006 OTV" I think 10 seeds to test germination, then thinned to about 5 or 6. All were PL. I sold a few plants in the spring and planted one here... will have to see if I planted 1 at a friend's (location #2.) Will try to round up e-mails & phone#'s of the people that bought them, contacted 1 person & left a message on answering machine to call me.

Here's 2006 OTV:




Here's 2007 OTV:



I didn't take a bottom pic because we had almost 2" of rain in 15 minutes the day before I harvested it and the tomato was split badly, almost in half around it.

Today I saw another about ripe and it was pink with almost yellow shoulders. Will see if ripe tomorrow.

[nctomatoman]

Well, I suppose it is not impossible, based on the bizarre stuff we are seeing in the dwarf project with respect to recessive genes expressing themselves at very unexpected times! don't forget, we don't really know what the original cross was with Yellow Brandywine....perhaps it was a pink????

[korney19]

That's right about the 2nd parent... but wouldn't OTV be a pink instead of red if the other parent was a pink?

I'm seeing some interesting stuff in my Cherokee Bi-Color F2 (Cherokee Green x a large yellow in Carolyn's book.) So far I have yellows, greens, yellow based bi-colors, and a green based bi-color similar to an overripe Cherokee Green... green & orange... like Berkeley Tie Dye but without the green-stripe gene... all from a yellow based bi-color F1.

[carolyn137]

Mark, remind me again of how many of those 2006 saved seeds gave a pink?

And how many fruits did you process when saving those 2006 OTV seeds?

I ask only b'c it could be a simple spontaneous mutation from red to pink based on the epidermis mutating from yellow to clear, in which case you'd still retain the PL.

There are a couple of varieties that I maintain in both pink and red versions but don't send out seeds for the wrong color, based on what the original color was.

While it's true that YB is known to be one parent and the other parent could have been pink, OTV has been out there and genetically stable now for many years, so I have a hard time seeing genetic segregation going on at this point in time.

[korney19]

I'm only growing one OTV here. I have to look at my sheets (downstairs or out on the porch) to see if I'm growing one at my friend Jerry's house. A friend from grammar school who I haven't seen in 30+ years responded to an ad for plants and took about 20 plants, one of them was OTV, he's the one I called & left a message. Two other people bought OTV plants, one I have the e-mail & maybe phone#, the other I don't know if I have any way to contact them. So there's a possibility of 4 or 5 plants being grown this year in WNY.

I checked my '06 pics and I can only find that 1 pic, above, so maybe only saved seed from that 1 fruit and ate the rest. It was rather late for me last year... the pic was dated 9/18, and I always try to get a pic of the first fruit of a plant, then save seeds before eating any of a variety--just in case so I don't eat everything or give out and forget to save seeds (it's happened in the past.)

[Grub]

Mark,

I know I let you down with a seed save from my Cherokee Green Bicolour but I, too, got an ornage-skinned red fleshed bicolour, but with okay flavour, and a yellow, with similar flavour... the flavour was the thing that wasn't really there for me.

But I am going to give it another whirl.

Best. G.

[korney19]

Originally Posted by Grub

Mark,

I know I let you down with a seed save from my Cherokee Green Bicolour but I, too, got an ornage-skinned red fleshed bicolour, but with okay flavour, and a yellow, with similar flavour... the flavour was the thing that wasn't really there for me.

But I am going to give it another whirl.

Best. G.

Buddy G,

Did you see this thread or was it too late for you to make it happen:

http://www.tomatoville.com/showthread.php?t=6181

I was looking for others (you, John, etc) to sneak in the F3 seed this year, plus Kellogg's Breakfast Heart cross (maybe Freda can dig up Carolyn's 2004 notebook...)

I haven't tried these yellows or greens yet but the bi-color segregate tastes excellent--like Cherokee green plus sweet & fruity. The problem is I may have to pursue all 3 or 4 segregates. That's also why it's so important to grow many plants, plus not rush to judgement in just the F1/F2 stage.

[carolyn137]

so maybe only saved seed from that 1 fruit and ate the rest

*****

OK, so if seeds saved from only one fruit it's perfectly possible that you're dealing with the spontaneous mutation I spoke of above.

No way to know until you find out what others got from the saved seed from that one fruit.

And if they all got pink, then it's back to the drawing board.

[korney19]

Are you saying a spontaneous mutation can change the color of fruit for one seed or 1 entire fruit's seed?

I called one person who took OTV... she had someone plant everything and of course lost all the labeling. She is growing:

OTV
AGG
Elbe
Spudleaf 117
Beauty King
Aker's West Virginia
Green Giant
Pearl's Yellow Pink
... and about 5 or 6 others that I can definitely rule out.

That would narrow down to OTV, 117 & AWV for reds or pinks. My 117 is slow here, and my AWV is about 3.5".

Her BF said they had 1 really big red one, like a beefsteak, plus golden orange ones that were really good. I'm assuming they mean AGG. My Elbe hasn't had a ripe one yet but my AGG has had a few between 2 plants.

I tried explaining potato leaves and he sounded like he was following me (used a mitten w/thumb as an example) and asked him & her to call or e-mail me if they get anymore large to extra large PL reds or pinks. When I said pinks he sounded confused, I don't think he thinks he has any pinks.

What's the "really big red one" they got????

[nctomatoman]

I would expect it to be easy to tell Akers from OTV - for me, Akers tends to be a bit more irregular at the shoulders - some ridging, potentially larger, and also different interior structure - Akers a bit more open, larger locules, with a higher probability of slight spaces/puffiness inside (spaces between the locules and solid interior walls). OTV BW for me has smoother shoulders and a meaty interior with smaller locules, very solid slices.

But we are really getting into very technical/specific details here!

[carolyn137]

Are you saying a spontaneous mutation can change the color of fruit for one seed or 1 entire fruit's seed?

****

One seed Mark. The number of seeds in a fruit is determined by the number of ovules in the tomato ovary and under most circumstances all are self pollenized and/or x pollinated if no precautions are taken.

So a spontaneous mutation affects the DNA in one seed and that seed does not multiply inside the ovary.

Possibilities??

OTV, PL large red beef
AGG, no
Elbe, no
Spudleaf 117, should be double flat heart if truly a PL version of Russian #117.
Beauty King, don't know well, but don't think PL
Aker's West Virginia, is RL, so out
Green Giant, nope
Pearl's Yellow Pink, don't know it

So on that list I see nothing that could be confused with OTV Brandywine but I don't know the last one as to leaf form or fruit shape.

[korney19]

Thanks, but Carolyn, the only red or pinks would be OTV, Aker's or 117 PL. And that would be reduced to just OTV & 117 PL if we go with PL's, but we really don't know what they picked the fruit from... it could have been any of the 3. It's easy having someone say they understand what a PL is or looks like after describing the differences between RL& PL, but in the excitement of someone getting a large red heirloom type tomato for the first time in their life, they probably couldn't tell me the plant they took it from after the fact!

My grammar school buddy hasn't called me back. And the OTV I picked today was nasty looking, catfaced and pink. Almost like it got wrapped around a [bamboo] pole and uneven ripening too.

[eyolf]

Carolyn:
"One seed Mark. The number of seeds in a fruit is determined by the number of ovules in the tomato ovary and under most circumstances all are self pollenized and/or x pollinated if no precautions are taken.

I am playing around with some (f4 this year) from Big Boy and Better Boy. So far I have selected for a big pink steak from Big Boy, and an immense pink steak from Better Boy and a beautiful 9-12 oz smooth oblate pink globe from Better Boy.

This year there is a yellow in the fields; it looks a lot like Orange Russian/Azoychka (pink spot in the flesh), niether of which have been grown since I began this project.

I thought stray seed, but maybe mutation?

Mark: Regarding ID'ing a pink tomato for non-tomatophiles...as we all know, pink tomatoes have no pigment in the skin, so perhaps that is a marker your friend could look for.