Interesting Article from Scientific American

[amideutch]

Somebody posted this over at Dave's. Title is "How to Grow a Better Tomato: The Case Against Heirloom Tomatoes."
Here's the link.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...rloom-tomatoes

[celestina]

Yes interesting. Yet, I'm not very interested in buying seeds of a hybrid tomato and throwing away the original OP seed. Might I try it to see what it tastes like, compare it to the OP variety--sure.

This was a strage statement by Chetelat-- wonder what he's talking about?

"Any plant that sets only two fruits, as heirlooms typically do,"

[BattleOfBennington]

Ami -

but what would be better? Increase the Brix through better care of the soil and getting rid of all those petrolium product fertilizers people use.

If you care for the plant in a more wholistic way, it will be heathier and able to fend off illness, etc - just like the human body.

Funny how these folks spend tons of money to re-invent the wheel.

Originally Posted by amideutch

Somebody posted this over at Dave's. Title is "How to Grow a Better Tomato: The Case Against Heirloom Tomatoes."
Here's the link.

http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?id=...rloom-tomatoes

[ContainerTed]

Holy Misinformation, Batman!!!!!!!!!!

Scientific American should rename itself to "Monsanto's Prosthesis". Whoever authored that article, (probably dictated by Monsanto) needs to get out of the house more.

I think an email campaign to President Obama and the First Lady should begin immediately.

How many times have chemical criminals like Monsanto been allowed to do their thing and hundreds of Americans end up with medical problems or even in cemetaries??

While the discussion on genes was okay, the rest of it was total and complete "HOGWASH".

Ted

[feldon30]

It's Scientific American we're talking about here. Anything that takes Science over Nuance is going to win out. I don't think it's a conspiracy. I think it is Scientists beating the Science drum.

I will say clearly that this guy clearly has no idea how to grow a tomato.

Perhaps that's the price to pay for a good, flavorful fruit? Hardly, Chetelat says, because the heirlooms' taste may have less to do with its genes than with the productivity of the plant and the growing environment. Any plant that sets only two fruits, as heirlooms typically do, is bound to produce juicier, sweeter and more flavorful fruit than varieties that set 100, as commercial types do. Plus, heirlooms are sold ripened on the vine, a surefire way to get tastier results than allowing them to mature on the shelf.

Never had a problem getting 10, 15, 20, or even 30 tomatoes off heirloom tomato plants, and they still taste incredible compared to commercial varieties in my experience.

If he is only getting 2 tomatoes, then clearly he is doing something wrong.

[organichris]

I didn't understand this statement:

"Genetics work will also point the way to sturdier, more flavorful tomatoes—albeit hybrid varieties whose sterile seeds cannot be passed down from generation to generation but must be purchased anew by growers each season."

I understand that you'd have to buy the seeds every year to get the same exact kind of tomato, but why would the seeds be sterile?

[travis]

Originally Posted by feldon30

I will say clearly that this guy clearly has no idea how to grow a tomato.

If he is only getting 2 tomatoes, then clearly he is doing something wrong.

Who says he actually is growing tomatoes

Or maybe he's not growing actual tomatoes

But he gets close to the truth in one respect. Short determinates that give huge and concentrated yields have a much higher ratio of fruit to leaf mass, therefore cannot produce and transfer as much sugar and flavor to each fruit. Conversely, indeterminates that produce tomatoes over extended seasons, one cluster every third or fourth internode rather than every other internode, distribute the sugars and flavors on a more measured schedule and in larger amounts to each fruit as it develops over the extended season rather than to the entire crop load in a week or two.

A lot of the rest of the article is bunk.

[feldon30]

Do you harvest tomatoes over an extended season? I guess I haven't been that lucky. I get tomatoes May 21 -> about the end of June.

[WVTomatoMan]

I had a difficult time believing I was reading such misinformation in a Scientific American article. I was in such disbelief that I actually verified that the link went to Scientific American and wasn't a spoof.

Randy

[travis]

Originally Posted by feldon30

Do you harvest tomatoes over an extended season? I guess I haven't been that lucky. I get tomatoes May 21 -> about the end of June.

I may not be saying that correctly or clearly.

What I mean is tomatoes produced on modern hybrid determinates bred for the commecial fresh eating market are produced on bush plants developing inflorescences every other internode mostly all at once on side shoots. This means there is a huge load of tomatoes all at once drawing sugars and flavors from a limited factory of leaves. That limits the available sugar and flavor to each fruit.

Tomatoes on indeterminate vines are produced in a more gradual series from inflorescences every third or fourth internode and benefit from sugar and flavor transfer from the leaf factory in higher amounts to each fruit over a longer fruit production period.

And yes, I agree with the article that generally speaking, modern hybrid market tomatoes produce more fruit than heirloom type indeterminates. I said generally. And that can be a good thing when it comes to flavor.

[Vince]

This is an extremely embarrassing article for this magazine.

Ted here is another possible name "Pseudo Scientific American".

I didn't realize recessive genes were "inferior".

I stopped reading the article at the part where they talked about hybrid seeds being sterile. Total Nonsense.

[carolyn137]

Ami, you beat me to it. I also saw that link at DG and intended to post it here but stopped on the way at GW to post it there as well and do a couple of posts, one of which required a lot of Googling.

I have a set order in which I read where I read and it's DG, then GW, then Tville, then maybe idig, and then the SSE message site. Actually very scientific having to do with where they're located in my faves.

The amount of misinformation is incredible.

I know a couple of the persons referred to in the article and so help me, if they knew what was said in that article I know they'd be very upset.

Dr. Esther van der Kammp is someone I've been in contact with for over a year and, well, I'll just have to come back later and try to explain myself.

F2 seeds from hybrids are sterile? Whoa, I guess I've been growing some sterile F2's in the past. They must have unsterilized themselves somehow......a true miracle.

[Wi-sunflower]

Yup, I too am currently growing a whole lot of F-2, F-3 and F-4 seeds collected from hybrid plants.

And as far as not getting more than 2 tomatoes off his heirlooms, I have some pics somewhere showing buckets of tomatoes still on the plants after we had our first frost. Kellogg's Breakfast, Rose, Peron and Marianna's Peace were some that have been very productive for me.

Carol

[creister]

As my grandma used to say, "hogwash". I guess all of us must be growing some genetic anomollies, as on a bad season I can get more than 2 fruit.

Tomatoes in the store taste horrible, are hard, etc.. Sounds to me, like, maybe seed saving is taking away some of the business of the seed companies.

[amideutch]

As long as there are those of us that will continue to perpetuate and promote the OP/Heirloom varieties and organizations like SSE I'm not to worried about companies like Monsanto and others doing their genetic mumbo jumbo. Let them develop their hybrids which are geared for the commercial market. We as heirloom tomato growers know better what is best for us and our plants. Some of the statements made in the article showed their ignorance about tomatoes in general. More and more OP crosses are showing up each year, improving the established lines and developing new ones right in the backyards of common everyday gardeners. When the day comes that a catastrophic event does occur, it will be the seed vaults filled with OP varieties that will save us, not hybrids. Ami