Problem with black cherry

JCBigBlue · June 25, 2009

My black cherry plant was going along smoothly; good growth (about 3 feet in SE Michigan), good color, plenty of blossoms and a half-dozen small fruits forming. About 4 days ago, I noticed some of the bottom stems appeared to be curling, and the leaf bottoms were facing upward. I didn't pay too much attention, as we had a moderate storm the day before, with fairly strong winds.

I checked it the next day, and noticed some of the higher stems were doing the same thing. I picked up stem in my hand, and it just dropped right off of the plant. Now the problem has been moving steadily upward and has affected at least the lower third of the plant; with the leaves now shriveling & dying. There have been no yellow or brown markings on the leaves, and I have observed no pests on the plant.

The plant (as are all of my 18 others) is in a container & I have used no chemical ferts. or sprays of any kind. It is the only plant (so far) with this problem. it appears to be progressing rapidly & I'm worried about it spreading to the other plants. Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? I'd sure appreciate any insight that folks may have.

*BTW, I can't attach a picture, as I've loaned my camera to a vacationing friend.

Thanks- Jon

rsg2001 · June 25, 2009

This sounds like what usually happens to Black Cherry in the late fall before the frost. It's happened to me twice and moves very quickly. The leaves crisp up, right? It doesn't seem to fit the description of any of the diseases that are in the various 'disease solvers'. It usually happens after I've had a lot of production. Maybe someone else will have an idea about what it is.

JCBigBlue · June 26, 2009

You are right RSG, the leaves don't discolor they just kind of shrivel and crisp up. It seems strange to me.

dice · June 27, 2009

I have seen that with Black Cherry. I assumed that it was
verticillium wilt (for various reasons).

JCBigBlue · June 28, 2009

I guess in the way it's acting, that sounds correct. The only thing that sounds a bit different is that the plant has has absolutely no yellowing or brown spots at all. This is my first real attempt at growing tomatoes; would it be likely to have v. wilt in a container? My mix is partially composted pine bark fines, peat moss, Espoma bio-starter, and I have added Tomato Tone (new version) every other week .

If it is V.W., should I destroy the plant to protect the others?

Thanks to all who have responded.

Jon

dice · June 28, 2009

Verticillium got into a couple of my containers from an unknown
source, but I was not using all bagged container mix (compost,
old potting soil that had sat ouside over a winter, alfalfa, sand,
etc). I likewise did not see leaves turning yellow and brown.
They simply dried up green. It had no symptoms of bacterial
wilt, fusarium, etc, or any other likely causes for partial wilt
like that.

I cut off the branches with symptoms, gave it aspirin dissolved
in water, then the weather warmed up, and the Black Cherry
plant proceeded to grow a couple of normal branches that had
never shown symptoms, producing a couple of nice trusses.

(I had what appeared to be the same thing in another container
nearby, where one plant never recovered, while another one
in the same container that was known to be verticillium tolerant
shook it off within a week and was fine all summer, not losing
a single branch to the disease.)

Insects are not a disease vector for verticillium. Spores can get
in the wind if it is in soil not covered with a mulch, or in
decaying, dead plant material that was infected, either lying
on top of the soil or tilled in.

In my containers, I figured it was in the old potting soil,
probably wind borne originally (lots of other plants had
that same compost and alfalfa that never showed any
symptoms).

JCBigBlue · June 28, 2009

Dice, thanks for your reply and information. I do have a two inch layer of straw mulch on all plants. I think for now I'll continue pruning the symptomatic branches and isolate it somewhat from the rest of my plants & see how things go.

dice · June 28, 2009

I saved the infected container mix over the winter, using part
of it to test a lime-sulfur drench for control, with another one
of the plants that it completely killed last year. No symptoms
so far, but it has been a much warmer summer than last year.
The plant and dodgy container mix are in a black container
that absorbs heat, and verticillium wilt likes cold, wet soil,
not becoming as virulent in hot weather and warm soils.
(So results of the lime-sulfur test are inconclusive.)

The rest of it I mixed with composted manure and a sandy
compost mix and repotted a bunch of houseplants with it
(no big loss if any of those are affected, and they are in much
warmer environments indoors, too, which does not favor
the disease).

JCBigBlue · June 28, 2009

Well, here in SE Michigan, we definitely had a long stretch of coolish-wet weather prior to the onset of symptoms. It has warmed & dried up for now, so hopefully it won't become a problem for the rest of my plants. I appreciate the great information.

**carolyn137** · June 28, 2009

Since it's just the one plant I ASAP think of a possible seed borne disease or a plant with same as received .

What was the source of your seeds or plant for your Black Cherry?

But it is true that Verticillium in particular, which is a systemic disease not a foliage disease, can hit plants randomly. But usually Vert shows unilateral wilting of one side of the plant only.

JCBigBlue · June 28, 2009

The Black Cherry was received as a seedling from Laurel's Heirloom Tomato Plants. The other five plants that I received from her, as well as the dozen that I raised from seed are thus far, fantastic.

The B.C. definitely has been affected with the wilting on all sides, and has spread more than halfway up the plant.

Thank you for weighing in Carolyn.

feldon30 · June 29, 2009

Suze and I had the same problem with Black Cherry this year. Very bizarre. Fortunately I grew 3 plants, so I got enough tomatoes out of the 3.

Did not have this problem last year.

rsg2001 · July 3, 2009

This happens to me with Black Cherry -- and it has happened to me virtually every year, after a lot of production. The same symptoms with the leaves crisping up on branches - usually not just one side of the plant. It has happened with plants both planted in the ground and in containers (not close to each other). I have cleaned out the container mix (which is self-watering container mix from Gardener's Supply & their fertilizer). The disease doesn't seem to spread to the other tomatoes, and seems unique to the Black Cherry. I keep growing them because I typically get the big production before it happens. I buy my seeds from TGS. Last year, the seeds from the new packet I bought wouldn't germinate; I tried 8 cells, planting a couple of seeds to the cell. This year, I bought another new packet of seeds (same source) and the first four cells would not germinate. I planted four more and was able to get 3 plants of it.

June 25, 2009	#1
JCBigBlue Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Westland, Michigan Posts: 28	Problem with black cherry My black cherry plant was going along smoothly; good growth (about 3 feet in SE Michigan), good color, plenty of blossoms and a half-dozen small fruits forming. About 4 days ago, I noticed some of the bottom stems appeared to be curling, and the leaf bottoms were facing upward. I didn't pay too much attention, as we had a moderate storm the day before, with fairly strong winds. I checked it the next day, and noticed some of the higher stems were doing the same thing. I picked up stem in my hand, and it just dropped right off of the plant. Now the problem has been moving steadily upward and has affected at least the lower third of the plant; with the leaves now shriveling & dying. There have been no yellow or brown markings on the leaves, and I have observed no pests on the plant. The plant (as are all of my 18 others) is in a container & I have used no chemical ferts. or sprays of any kind. It is the only plant (so far) with this problem. it appears to be progressing rapidly & I'm worried about it spreading to the other plants. Does anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? I'd sure appreciate any insight that folks may have. *BTW, I can't attach a picture, as I've loaned my camera to a vacationing friend. Thanks- Jon

June 27, 2009	#4
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I have seen that with Black Cherry. I assumed that it was verticillium wilt (for various reasons). __________________ -- alias

June 28, 2009	#5
JCBigBlue Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Westland, Michigan Posts: 28	I guess in the way it's acting, that sounds correct. The only thing that sounds a bit different is that the plant has has absolutely no yellowing or brown spots at all. This is my first real attempt at growing tomatoes; would it be likely to have v. wilt in a container? My mix is partially composted pine bark fines, peat moss, Espoma bio-starter, and I have added Tomato Tone (new version) every other week . If it is V.W., should I destroy the plant to protect the others? Thanks to all who have responded. Jon Last edited by JCBigBlue; June 28, 2009 at 09:48 AM.

June 28, 2009	#6
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	Verticillium got into a couple of my containers from an unknown source, but I was not using all bagged container mix (compost, old potting soil that had sat ouside over a winter, alfalfa, sand, etc). I likewise did not see leaves turning yellow and brown. They simply dried up green. It had no symptoms of bacterial wilt, fusarium, etc, or any other likely causes for partial wilt like that. I cut off the branches with symptoms, gave it aspirin dissolved in water, then the weather warmed up, and the Black Cherry plant proceeded to grow a couple of normal branches that had never shown symptoms, producing a couple of nice trusses. (I had what appeared to be the same thing in another container nearby, where one plant never recovered, while another one in the same container that was known to be verticillium tolerant shook it off within a week and was fine all summer, not losing a single branch to the disease.) Insects are not a disease vector for verticillium. Spores can get in the wind if it is in soil not covered with a mulch, or in decaying, dead plant material that was infected, either lying on top of the soil or tilled in. In my containers, I figured it was in the old potting soil, probably wind borne originally (lots of other plants had that same compost and alfalfa that never showed any symptoms). __________________ -- alias

June 28, 2009	#8
dice Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: PNW Posts: 4,743	I saved the infected container mix over the winter, using part of it to test a lime-sulfur drench for control, with another one of the plants that it completely killed last year. No symptoms so far, but it has been a much warmer summer than last year. The plant and dodgy container mix are in a black container that absorbs heat, and verticillium wilt likes cold, wet soil, not becoming as virulent in hot weather and warm soils. (So results of the lime-sulfur test are inconclusive.) The rest of it I mixed with composted manure and a sandy compost mix and repotted a bunch of houseplants with it (no big loss if any of those are affected, and they are in much warmer environments indoors, too, which does not favor the disease). __________________ -- alias Last edited by dice; July 3, 2009 at 12:08 PM.

June 25, 2009	#2
rsg2001 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Zone 6 Posts: 479	This sounds like what usually happens to Black Cherry in the late fall before the frost. It's happened to me twice and moves very quickly. The leaves crisp up, right? It doesn't seem to fit the description of any of the diseases that are in the various 'disease solvers'. It usually happens after I've had a lot of production. Maybe someone else will have an idea about what it is.

June 26, 2009	#3
JCBigBlue Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Westland, Michigan Posts: 28	You are right RSG, the leaves don't discolor they just kind of shrivel and crisp up. It seems strange to me.

June 28, 2009	#10
carolyn137 Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Upstate NY, zone 4b/5a Posts: 21,169	Since it's just the one plant I ASAP think of a possible seed borne disease or a plant with same as received . What was the source of your seeds or plant for your Black Cherry? But it is true that Verticillium in particular, which is a systemic disease not a foliage disease, can hit plants randomly. But usually Vert shows unilateral wilting of one side of the plant only. __________________ Carolyn

June 29, 2009	#12
feldon30 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2006 Location: Rock Hill, SC Posts: 5,346	Suze and I had the same problem with Black Cherry this year. Very bizarre. Fortunately I grew 3 plants, so I got enough tomatoes out of the 3. Did not have this problem last year. __________________ [SIZE="3"]I've relaunched my gardening website -- [B]TheUnconventionalTomato.com[/B][/SIZE] * [I][SIZE="1"]*I'm not allowed to post weblinks so you'll have to copy-paste it manually.[/SIZE][/I]

July 3, 2009	#13
rsg2001 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: New York Zone 6 Posts: 479	This happens to me with Black Cherry -- and it has happened to me virtually every year, after a lot of production. The same symptoms with the leaves crisping up on branches - usually not just one side of the plant. It has happened with plants both planted in the ground and in containers (not close to each other). I have cleaned out the container mix (which is self-watering container mix from Gardener's Supply & their fertilizer). The disease doesn't seem to spread to the other tomatoes, and seems unique to the Black Cherry. I keep growing them because I typically get the big production before it happens. I buy my seeds from TGS. Last year, the seeds from the new packet I bought wouldn't germinate; I tried 8 cells, planting a couple of seeds to the cell. This year, I bought another new packet of seeds (same source) and the first four cells would not germinate. I planted four more and was able to get 3 plants of it.