Leaf roll

duajones · March 18, 2010

I always have some leaf roll early on and usually dont worry about it. But after dealing with possible TYLCV last year any changes in the plants worry me. Besides the leaf roll I am noticing some of the new growth looking similar to that of the plants that had the virus last year. And of course I am seeing those darn whiteflies again.

RandyG · March 18, 2010

Did you have the virus problem diagnosed last year? The picture you posted here could be virus but might also be some sort of herbicide problem. It's not clear from the picture.

duajones · March 18, 2010

TYLCV was suspected by A&M but not confirmed as I could not afford to send it elsewhere for the test. I did have a little herbicide damage to some other plants but didnt think these were effected as the signs are different. And like I said I have some leaf roll every year and learned to pay no attention to it until having the possible virus problem last year.

RandyG · March 18, 2010

Do you have pictures from last year and are you familiar with herbicide damage caused by Aminopyralid containing herbicides? This herbicide carries over in manure, compost, hay used for mulch from treated fields and can persist in the soil for along time. This may have nothing to do with your problem but is just a thought since damage to tomatoes from this herbicide carryover is becoming more common because of widespread treatment of grass lands and hay fields with this persistent herbicide.

**Mischka** · March 19, 2010

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyG

Do you have pictures from last year and are you familiar with herbicide damage caused by Aminopyralid containing herbicides? This herbicide carries over in manure, compost, hay used for mulch from treated fields and can persist in the soil for along time. This may have nothing to do with your problem but is just a thought since damage to tomatoes from this herbicide carryover is becoming more common because of widespread treatment of grass lands and hay fields with this persistent herbicide.

Would you happen to know of the name of products that contain this herbicide? I have a farmer friend that's sometimes overly ambitious when it comes to spraying things on his fields.

RandyG · March 19, 2010

Milestone is a common one that contains aminopyralid. This is a Dow chemical that was banned in Great Britain in 2008 because of so much damage to gardens that had herbicide carryover from compost, manure, or mulch. This chemical can carry over for 3 years or more in contaminated soils. There was quite a bit of damge in the U.S. last year from the aminopyralid because use of the chemical has become so common on pastures and hayfields. If you go to Wikipedia, you can see information on this and severe damage it causes on tomato plants. At a lower dose, the symptoms are less severe and could be confused with a virus. RandyG

travis · March 19, 2010

This clearly explains some of the problems I've had the past 2 summers, particularly in 2008, when I nearly accused my neighbor of drifting herbicide onto my tomatoes even though I did not see any damage in between his application and my tomato bed.

The leaves on some of my plants were curled so badly that they turned back in on themselves and actually choked off the growing tips and smothered the blossoms. The damage was spotty though, affecting some plants and not others. RandyG's information would explain this because I load in a lot of organic material comprised of rotted straw and manure from both horses and cattle, but not necessarily all from the same farm or pasture source. So some areas of the bed could be more affected than others.

I will now ask the sources what they are spraying on their wheat or where they are getting their fodder.

Suze · March 24, 2010

Interesting comments in this thread.

One thing I used to regularly do before I moved here about three years ago is use wheat straw mulch for all my vegetables. I really like to use straw for a couple of reasons. One is that the light color and the hollow structure makes an excellent insulator and helps to keep the soil cool. Another reason is that a few bales go a loooong way.

Well, when I moved here (used to live about 3 hours north in the DFW metroplex) and went looking for bales of straw, I got some strange looks. For whatever reason, people just don't use straw here. Wheat is really not a central or South Texas crop, any straw bales are trucked in, and almost impossible to find. If anything, most people use hay (or coastal hay aka coastal bermuda). Otherwise they use shredded leaves, some sort of wood or bark mulch, or nothing.

I'm not using "nothing", nor do wood products meet my needs at the scale I grow at, so since I live in a heavily treed area, I've been using shredded leaves for the last couple of years. Gotta do something with all those leaves anyway ...

Back to the straw and hay. I was cautioned by more than a couple of local farmers to make sure to know my source these days for either straw or hay bales because much of it could be "contaminated" by things that are sprayed on the crop as herbicides.

I mostly used shredded leaves last year, but did mulch four beds with hay for the heck of it. The plants in those beds failed to thrive. I got a few fruits off of most of the plants, but the plants grew much slower than all the others and there was a heck of a lot of leaf roll. I ended up pulling them fairly early and putting them out of their misery. Something was wrong, and I thought (and still think) it was that hay. There was nothing else different about those beds or how I handled them other than the choice of mulch.

March 18, 2010	#3
duajones Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Corpus Christi,Texas Z9 Posts: 1,996	TYLCV was suspected by A&M but not confirmed as I could not afford to send it elsewhere for the test. I did have a little herbicide damage to some other plants but didnt think these were effected as the signs are different. And like I said I have some leaf roll every year and learned to pay no attention to it until having the possible virus problem last year. __________________ Duane Jones

March 18, 2010	#2
RandyG Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: western North Carolina Posts: 84	Did you have the virus problem diagnosed last year? The picture you posted here could be virus but might also be some sort of herbicide problem. It's not clear from the picture.

March 19, 2010	#6
RandyG Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: western North Carolina Posts: 84	Milestone is a common one that contains aminopyralid. This is a Dow chemical that was banned in Great Britain in 2008 because of so much damage to gardens that had herbicide carryover from compost, manure, or mulch. This chemical can carry over for 3 years or more in contaminated soils. There was quite a bit of damge in the U.S. last year from the aminopyralid because use of the chemical has become so common on pastures and hayfields. If you go to Wikipedia, you can see information on this and severe damage it causes on tomato plants. At a lower dose, the symptoms are less severe and could be confused with a virus. RandyG

March 19, 2010	#7
travis Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,984	This clearly explains some of the problems I've had the past 2 summers, particularly in 2008, when I nearly accused my neighbor of drifting herbicide onto my tomatoes even though I did not see any damage in between his application and my tomato bed. The leaves on some of my plants were curled so badly that they turned back in on themselves and actually choked off the growing tips and smothered the blossoms. The damage was spotty though, affecting some plants and not others. RandyG's information would explain this because I load in a lot of organic material comprised of rotted straw and manure from both horses and cattle, but not necessarily all from the same farm or pasture source. So some areas of the bed could be more affected than others. I will now ask the sources what they are spraying on their wheat or where they are getting their fodder.

March 24, 2010	#8
Suze Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 3,027	Interesting comments in this thread. One thing I used to regularly do before I moved here about three years ago is use wheat straw mulch for all my vegetables. I really like to use straw for a couple of reasons. One is that the light color and the hollow structure makes an excellent insulator and helps to keep the soil cool. Another reason is that a few bales go a loooong way. Well, when I moved here (used to live about 3 hours north in the DFW metroplex) and went looking for bales of straw, I got some strange looks. For whatever reason, people just don't use straw here. Wheat is really not a central or South Texas crop, any straw bales are trucked in, and almost impossible to find. If anything, most people use hay (or coastal hay aka coastal bermuda). Otherwise they use shredded leaves, some sort of wood or bark mulch, or nothing. I'm not using "nothing", nor do wood products meet my needs at the scale I grow at, so since I live in a heavily treed area, I've been using shredded leaves for the last couple of years. Gotta do something with all those leaves anyway ... Back to the straw and hay. I was cautioned by more than a couple of local farmers to make sure to know my source these days for either straw or hay bales because much of it could be "contaminated" by things that are sprayed on the crop as herbicides. I mostly used shredded leaves last year, but did mulch four beds with hay for the heck of it. The plants in those beds failed to thrive. I got a few fruits off of most of the plants, but the plants grew much slower than all the others and there was a heck of a lot of leaf roll. I ended up pulling them fairly early and putting them out of their misery. Something was wrong, and I thought (and still think) it was that hay. There was nothing else different about those beds or how I handled them other than the choice of mulch.