TPS Seedling experiment

[wmontanez]

I started some TPS seed in January and February from berries I collected last year. I came around asking some questions to this forum when i was starting to sow the seeds. The mother potato selfed, I called it originally purple peruvian but the flowers were not white as I expected, at this point I am not sure of the exact name of the mother but it had purple skin purple flesh with mauve flowers with redish/rust color pollen.

Now I have 12 TPS seedlings about 6 inch to 2 inch tall. And a second tray of about 20 more 1/4 inch seedlings. Since my frost date is a month from now, I was potting up and burying the taller ones up to the second or third set of leaves and discovered some pea size tubers!
So I transfered all the seedlings to bigger pots and collected the little tubers. Only 9 plants out of 12 had some formed, the biggest seedlings had 4 or 5 tiny tubers. They range from black to purple, mauve, bi-color, pink and white. I gave the pot numbers (TPS Seedling #1, 2, 3 and the tubers I wrote seed tuber #1, #2 and so on...)
I want to cut one too to see the flesh but I wonder if I can grow clones from them. What is your experience with this? Tom any advice ?

I am very excited about growing my own potatoes this way, I will end up with an amazing diversity And can't wait to receive the tubers from Tom to plant them next to mine, maybe they cross with one of the red-flesh and create another kind altogether. No more buying store potatoes

[Tom Wagner]

Wendy,

My comments are like any from someone who has done something so many times that he or she almost assumes everyone should know the same things. My asides are often cursory and I only have myself to blame for that.

First of all, sowing TPS in January and February during the short days of winter and maturing off about now before you can safely transplant them outdoors is, in fact, a method of producing those little "Mini-tubers" to harvest early and plant later in the year about two to three months from now outdoors. Those productions will be perfect to select clones for further reproduction and increase.

If you try to transplant those seedlings you have, Wendy, the early maturing ones will die down and the super later maturing ones will take off. But unless you are selecting for late maturities, the successful transplants will ultimately disappoint you. The timing of seedling age is important for transplanting to the field, and too many people treat potato seedlings like tuber lines thinking the earlier you start them the better. Not so! I have been trying to interest folks to sow potato seed at various intervenes in order to learn the best practices for them and to actually help select for better clones for the future.

I wouldn't worry about cutting in to those tiny mini tubers ....just replant and enjoy the production just prior to frost. The sprouting dormancies can be broken quickly if you place those mini tubers in a warm ambient temperature area with even a bit of light, diffused or indirect is better. Once the eyes "pip" you may safely plant them like regular potato tubers.

Tom

[David Marek]

Originally Posted by Tom Wagner

I have been trying to interest folks to sow potato seed at various intervenes in order to learn the best practices for them and to actually help select for better clones for the future.

Being new to this I'm glad this point was brought up. I was in the boat of earlier is better for the tiny seeds. I have two seeding dates "accidently on purpose", and most of the seedlings are already pretty big. It will be interesting to compare the early batch to the late one. (and the seed tubers!)

[wmontanez]

Thank you for taking the time to respond Tom. So I guess I started them too early for direct transplanting into the soil but I will put them in a hill just for fun experimenting since now I got seed tubers also I am planting those tiny tubers as clones. More chances of any surviving! I have another 10 or seeds that I sowed in early March since the Feb seem to slow to grow and they look about the same now. I could try to see if they also produce tiny tubers before May otherwise I will direct plant those and collect the potatoes in the fall.

I still have time to start another batch in early April and that should be ready for transplant in late May. My frost free date is May 20th. I am so excited at the prospect of getting a new variety all together.

[Tom Wagner]

If I can get away from typing all these responses to the potato forum, and use the only day off from my work with the Census for the week....I will get out to my friend's greenhouse to observe my potato seedlings....especially the Skagit Vally Gold hybrids....I have hundreds nearly ready for the first transplanting. I will be able to tell flesh colors and skin colors just by looking at the stems and leaves.

Also I have some potatoes that I kept at ambient room temperatures from the 2008 harvest (Yes, the 2008 harvest) that survived everything and are viable for potting up in 3 inch pots for later transplanting. I am looking for potatoes that truly are sustainable and these will be used for breeding purposes for longevity.

BTW, don't worry if there are pea sized tubers on your potato seedlings....just plant out the the field and if the lines are extremely early they will die down early anyway. Those with a tad more vigor or later maturities will continue to grow into full sized plants.

Tom Wagner

[wmontanez]

I will post some pictures for you at the end of this week, maybe you can guess the flesh color by looking at them for me? I will take the picture of some of the plants and a pic of the seed tuber. I am interested to see the inside of the mauve and bi-colored but will not cut into the tiny tubers just to see, i need those to re plant them and enjoy the potatoes in the fall...you can guess by now what i am after, a red and while or red and yellow flesh potato.

[wmontanez]

Originally Posted by wmontanez

I will post some pictures for you at the end of this week, maybe you can guess the flesh color by looking at them for me?

Ok here are the pictures. I tried to put the tiny tuber next to the plant so you can see. I am interested in to know if you could guess the inside color of #3,#5,#8 and #10. I thing I'll make a bet or guess #1,#2, #7 and maybe #9 be purple inside, #4 white inside, I did not get one tuber on #6 but guess is white skin and white inside if i read the clues correctly.

I am moving the tubers near a warm area with indirect light to wait until they start sprouting! TPS growing is a lot of fun.

[Frog]

Not much useful to add here, but this is all very exciting, love the pictures; they're like jewels to my eyes.

[wmontanez]

Thanks Frog I am still watching them grow , will transplant soon. And next to them the tuber seed. I have a second batch of 10 or so that I am planting directly on the field. This is a big experiment for me, I am having lots of fun.

[TZ-OH6]

I too started some TPS this year, just after my tomatoes. They are Blue Potato and Katahdin.


Wikipedia says "breeders try to keep solanine levels below 200mg/kg". Is there any danger of solanine levels increasing in OP taters due to cross pollination and/or segregation, either for common varieties or "Tom's Treasures"?


Is there any reason to pick late vs early lines (etc.) from these (other than timing preference)?

[Tom Wagner]

Wikipedia says "breeders try to keep solanine levels below 200mg/kg". Is there any danger of solanine levels increasing in OP taters due to cross pollination and/or segregation, either for common varieties or "Tom's Treasures"?

Since we are quoting Wiki sites...I might as well add another....


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanine

Showing green under the skin strongly suggests solanine build-up in potatoes although each process can occur without the other. A bitter taste in a potato is another, potentially more reliable indicator of toxicity. Because of the bitter taste and appearance of such potatoes, solanine poisoning is rare outside conditions of food shortage. The symptoms are mainly vomiting and diarrhea, and the condition may be misdiagnosed as gastroenteritis. Most potato poisoning victims recover fully, although fatalities are known especially when victims are undernourished or do not receive suitable treatment

But seriously....greening of potatoes is far worse than anything else going on with solanine. In the store, at home, etc., any greening can be detected by taking a bite out of the potato at the skin level. Your jaw will be ratcheting from the bitterness at the base of the tongue.

When I was a guest in France, the hostess was so excited since she bought these unusually colored potatoes in the store that day.....:{(......and I politely put a boiled potato on my plate and it was green inside!!!! Needless to say, but I told them not to eat them.

Very few of my varieties fail the test of taking a bite out of the stem end of a potato. The solanine content is four times higher in the skin, thus if I detect any bitterness.....out it goes.

Breeders of potatoes, and I am a contemporary of breeders who had to watch out for Lenape crosses, ie. Atlantic, Belchip, Chipbelle, Trent, Russete, Niska, Snowden, etc.....as Lenape can taste a bit bitter at times. Funny to say this but the potato chip industry uses a lot of Lenape derived clones such as Atlantic and Snowden and many of the Frito-Lay varieties trace back to Lenape and interestingly..Monona....a Katahdin x Katahdin times full sib Chippew x Chippewa cross.

Lenape was used extensively for the ability to transfer about 50% of the seedlings to have low sugars and about half of those to have high solids. For years the USDA crossed Wauseon with Lenape over a twenty year period to get huge populations of potential varieties to promote. Since that era....testing for solanine has been routine.

My crosses of Lenape have been eaten over the years to make sure I dumped the slightly bitter ones as I find them. Lenape gets the solanine from a wild species...chacoense...in the pedigree.

Some of the old Nordic lines of potatoes that were considered good flavored potatoes have been known to be somewhat high in solanine/glycoalkaloids, and I cross those to low alkaloid lines and save only the non bitter clones.


I am on top of the glycoalkaloid problem as I like my potatoes to leave a happy face....not a bitter face!

Tom Wagner

[wmontanez]

i guess i should do the "bite test on stem end of the potatoes" from my TPS seedling hills the second year around if they survive all the process

[TZ-OH6]

Tom, Thanks for the info and history.

Since you mentioned Chips, what's the deal with the occasional chip that has a green ring in it? Natural?, exposed to light? don't eat?

[Tom Wagner]

I am not going to say ..."Go ahead and eat the occasional potato chip that is green"...but a few of these are not going to hurt you. Hot oil has a tendency to leach out the solanine anyway.

In the old days when potato chips plants bought Kennebec, sun greening in the field was common since that variety has long stolons and the potato tubers would emerge on the sides of the potato rows and the sun would really green them up. Most potato chip plants have a person or two on the line throwing out greens, etc., fresh from the abrasive peelers. They don't always get them either.

I would just not eat them because the flavor is not up to my standards.

[wmontanez]

I have seen some green chips ....too picky here...I separate those and toss them.
When it comes to potato chips I want real flavor, I go with a local brand CapeCod Chips they are thick chips very good flavor but I don't know what type they use but generally I like those. Or if I want to go for the crunchy snack and I am craving something more tasty then I pick Terra Chips, they have all sort of potato chips like Yukon Golds or Blue or Red very thick potato chips and the flavor is earthy and yum.