Experiments with containers

[MsCowpea]

I was looking through my books for another post and ran across some information I had forgotten all about.

The book is All About Tomatoes (1981).

The author (Walter L. Doty) completed the following tests:

HOW MUCH SOIL?
compared containers holding 4 cubic feet, 2 cubic feet, and 1/2 cubic feet (all were watered and fertilized the same//Better Boys)

here are the results:
4 cu. feet height 66" 58 tomatoes
2 cu. feet height 56" 48 tomatoes
1/2 cu. feet height 46" 12 tomatoes

Yield alone is won by the biggest container BUT if you compare maximum production from the mininum amount of soil the 1/2 cu. feet size would win as the 4 cubic feet container holds enough soil to fill eight 5 gallon containers. 8 times 12 == 96 (double that of the 4 cu.feet)

((I have never liked using 5 gallon containers and have not gotten the same results --maybe I don't fertilize enough. Even when folks post pictures of their plants in 5 gallon containers they don't aways look that great to me--they look like mine-kinda of skimpy.) . I have settled on 15 gallon for the bulk of my containers and I'm happy with that size though I prefer my even bigger containers. But I may try a 5 gallon again and fertilize the heck out of it but how will that effect the taste of the fruit?))

2nd experiment:
Compared planting in top soil vs synthetic soil.

THe results: Synthetic soil mix produced twice as much. ((we all know that one )) Top soil did fruit and ripen earlier though.

3rd experiment-this is a weird one. I will just give the results. "In all test of production in 5-gallon containers, the number of fruit is greater when the vine is trained in a FAN SHAPE on a trellis."


Well, happy container growing!

[joesgarden]

MsCowpea,

Thank you for another interesting and thought provoking post. Did Mr. Doty mention anything about the air temperatures during his experiments or the length of his experiments?

Joe

[valereee]

MCP, I wonder if the fan-shape increases the amount of sun on the leaves?

Val

[MsCowpea]

Joe, I am not at home so don't have the book with me but I will check for additional info. when I get there.

Val, I was thinking on those lines too. But wonder if you get more sun scald if the plant is fanned out.

I was just looking at his results and it occurs to me that 2 cubic feet would be ideal as you get 48 tomatoes as opposed to having 4 five gallon containers which would get you the same 48 tomatoes yet you are only taking care of 1 plant vs 4. (also it would not be worth doubling the amount of potting mix to 4 cubic feet for a measly 10 more tomatoes).

Actually, this is what I thought all along--if you just want to try lots of tomato varieties and you don't want the expense of buying medium for larger containers you can grow in 5 gallon containers but the yield is greatly reduced per plant.

Wonder how close my 15 gallon containers are to 2 cubic feet?

[tylenol]

15 gallons does equal 2 cubic feet.....plus a worm poo or 2... 2 .0052018194082762 cubic feet to be exact.

and 2 cubic feet equals 14.96104 gallons

http://www.nettam.com/convert.html

[honu]

MsCowpea,
15 gal is a little more than 2 cu ft.
http://www.onlineconversion.com/volume.htm

But I may try a 5 gallon again and fertilize the heck out of it but how will that effect the taste of the fruit?

I'll be very interested in your results if you do try this. I've never had any decent production from indets in 5-7 gal.

[MsCowpea]

Tylenol, EDIT I misunderstood your post at first. Now I see you were answering my question. DUH, sorry I was so slow. That is good information - I can always remove a turd or two to be 15 gallons exactly.

((EDIT thought you were saying you only get 3 containers out of 2 cubic feet. Hence my question

Are you saying that 2 cubic feet would only fill 3 -five gallon containers.

That would mean only 36 tomatoes in the 5 gallon containers vs the 48 in the same 2 cubic foot of medium that is in one container.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Also I believe an earthbox would be almost exactly 2 cubic feet--maybe that is why they work so well.

[MsCowpea]

Thanks Honu, just saw your post. Still glad I got the 15 gallon containers.

[MsCowpea]

Joe, unfortunately the experiments are described on only 2 pages in the whole book.

Here is some additional information.

Conducted in Los Angeles test garden.

The HOW MUCH SOIL experiment :
45 days after planting he gives height-
4 cubic feet 30" high
2 cubic feet 27" high
1/2 cubic feet 21" high

90 days after planting he gives the data I posted above.

These are the factors he mentions impacting the experiments: used a soil mix made up of 45% sphagnum peat moss, 45% perlite, and 10%sand. ((CORRECTION)) To one cubic YARD he added 8 lbs. of 5-10-10, and 10 lbs of lime. (says you can substitute any good quality commercial mix.)

Temperatures were generally in the mid 70's and low 80's with with some wide variations.

As far as the descrepancies on how many 5 gallon containers--he says you can fill four 5 gallon containers with 2 cubic feet. Of course you would not fill them to the top so maybe that is the difference AS TO WHETHER YOU can fill 3 or 4. Still think you would be a little short of mix though if you are trying to fill 4.

[bcday]

To one cubic foot he added 8 lbs. of 5-10-10, and 10 lbs of lime.

Are you sure? One cubic foot is only about 7 1/2 gallons. Would you put 8 lbs of 5-10-10 in a container that small? Even 8 ozs seems like a lot -- I would expect a little over 1/2 oz. Or did I misread something?

[MsCowpea]

Oops, good catch. That is supposed to be 1 cubic yard.
I will go back and fix that.

One thing to remember is people can get an excellent yield in 5 gallon containers too ( more than the 12 on average that he reported)--I have seen greenhouse pictures where the yield is tremendous in 5 gallon bags so if 5 gallon is your preference I realize they do work well for some people. My yield though is so much greater in a 15 gallon. 10 gallons might be a happy medium to save on potting mix if you have lots and lots of pots to fill.

[joesgarden]

Every year, I grow some tomatoes in five gallon buckets. There are, of course, good years and bad years. I am reluctant to count tomatoes before they ripen, but this year I am averaging almost 14 fruit set per pot at 45 days into the season. If the relatively cool weather holds for three more weeks, I expect to set another 10 to 12 tomatoes per pot. All the required blossoms are there. I realize this is not an outstanding yield of tomatoes, but it is acceptable for me.

I grow in five gallon buckets because they allow me to grow more varieties in a smaller space at a reasonable cost. I can start them in a sunny place and easily move them to their final location as the solstice approaches. They fruit earlier than my in ground vines. This can be very important when the summer heat comes early in coastal North Carolina and blossoms start to drop.

They require a lot of care. Growing in five gallon buckets is borderline hydroponics. After the first 30 days a weekly fertilizer program is required. On sunny days, they need to be watered twice unless you have a drip watering system. I keep them pruned to two or three leaders per plant in order to reduce the load on the roots. BER seems to be more of a problem in small containers. Knock on a plastic bucket, I have not seen any BER this year.

I am lucky that I have the time to devote to them. Truth be known, I love every minute of it.

Joe

[SelfSufficient1]

This is the first year I have grown tomatoes in containers at all and I only have my Hawaiian Pineapples in a 5 gallon bucket(there are maybe 3 in there growing). There are 5 tomatoes in it right now and I am pretty pleased with that since I really didn't expect them to produce anything. I don't water twice a day, just once if it hasn't rained and I am not real good about remembering to fertilize but I am working on it.
Anyway, I found all this info. really interesting and wish I could find some 15 gallon containers.

[MsCowpea]

Now I am confused--

the author, in the section titled Other Training Notes mentions that in the experiment comparing 5 gallon to larger containers HE PRUNED THE TOMATO (in the 5 gallon container) and trained on a tomato tower.

He doesn't mention pruning the tomatoes in the larger containers. If he did not treat them all the same (ie no pruning or all pruned) the experiment would be flawed. I am assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that he did prune the other ones too.

Determining maximum yield from the mininum amount of soil is not of concern if you have lots and lots of containers (either 5 gal. or bigger) and get more tomatoes than you can possibly use --it is important if you just have a few containers as you want the greatest amount of production using the least amount of potting mix. Lack of space really doesn't play into the decision that much--as a 10 or 15 gallon container doesn't have that much of a bigger 'footprint' than a 5 gallon container. For the homeowner obviously they are more expensive to fill but quadtruple the number of tomatoes may (or may not) warrant the cost.
(In a greenhouse setting the extra cost must not be justified. Production is fine and they know how to take care of them to maximize yield. )