Green when ripe

[Fred Hempel]

Every year I try to rigorously evaluate a particular type of tomato on our farm, to see which one matches our climate, soils and growing methods best.

This year I would like to delve into the world of Green-When-Ripe tomatoes. One Note: I recognize that Green-when-ripe typically means Yellow/Green when ripe.

We currently only grow one (Lucinda, which we bred by crossing Silvery Fir Tree and Tom Wagner's Green Zebra and selecting for green zebra-type coloration in a fruit the size of a small beefsteak. We selected over generations and it is now true-breeding). It is good, but not great, and I would like to see what else is out there.

In return for identifying your favorite green tomato on this thread, I will send seeds of Lucinda. It is freely available, and can be distributed without restrictions. We released it in the Bay Area (through seedling sales) a number of years ago.

Here is our flyer on Lucinda

[sprtsguy76]

Fred-Well you spoiled my surprise! With our scheduled meeting today I was going to bring you a few of my favs which include Green Doctors , Green Doctors Frosted and Cherokee Green along with a few other favs of mine. I dont have a ton of seed but I can spare 15 seeds of each. See you soon!

Damon

[carolyn137]

Fred, green when ripes are some of my most desirable varieties and I've grown a lot of them starting back in the early 90's. I love the spicy sweetness of them. And actually a couple of us had said that the next fad after the blacks would be the green when ripes and that has come to pass.

Not all green when ripes have a yellow epidermis, there's now a couple that have a clear epidermis so they look like frosted grapes.

Green Doctors is now my favoite gwr cherry and there's a clear epidermis variant of it called Green Doctors Frosted. The other cherry I like is called Green Zebra Cherry, absolutely lucious. It was found in a box of mixed cherries in a supermarket in Germany and all that's known is that the fruits came from the Netherlands. I think it was probably called GZ cherry b/c the striping is the same but the taste sure isn't, b'c I'm one who doesn't like the larger GZ.

Here are some I've grown that I like:

Cherokee Green
Malachite Box ( I'm too lazy to write the Russian)
Moldovan Green
Emerald Evergreen
Dorothy's Green
Charlie's Green
Green Giant
Verde Claro ( clear epidermis) also as with GD Frosted
Humph


.... to name a few.

And here's a link to Tania's database with a list of green when ripe varieties:

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/C...Green_Tomatoes

Hope that helps.

[DanishGardener]

I will have to agree with Carolyn and Damon on Green Doctor's Frosted for a GWR cherry. The flavor is very good/excellent in my garden, but it's production is rather low compared to other cherry varieties.
However, I would still choose Green Doctor's Frosted over Green Grape any day.

[tam91]

I looked at Green Zebra Cherry on Tania's site - I see there are no sources for it, nor a photo.

Sounds like an interesting variety - is there a photo anywhere, that you know of?

[carolyn137]

Fred, just so you know, in my upcoming seed offer here (SASE) I'll be offering:

Green Doctors
Green Doctors Frosted
Green Zebra Cherry

...... if any or all of them interest you.

Somewhat amusing as to where Green Doctors and GD Frosted originated from but I've described that here several times.

Let's just say that the whole path to GD and GD Frosted, genetically speaking, started with Galina's, a PL dark gold wonderful cherry tomato and went from there to the variety Dr. Carolyn and Dr Carolyn Pink and from Dr. Carolyn came GD and then to GD Frosted.

How I wish my own geneology was as well known.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by tam91

I looked at Green Zebra Cherry on Tania's site - I see there are no sources for it, nor a photo.

Sounds like an interesting variety - is there a photo anywhere, that you know of?

I've sent the variety for trial to:

Sandhill Preservation
Glecklers
mariseeds.com

And perhaps one other place I'm not remembering right now.

I offered it here last year in my seed offer.

I've sent it to many of my best SSE friends so while I'm pretty sure that one or all of the above seed sites might be listing it for 2011 when they update their sites, it could appear elsewhere as well.

Some of the folks here at Tville are commercial and they may have gotten it here as well, or from my SSE listing

There's a picture of it at Reinhard's site

http://www.reinhard-kraft.de/

Click on the year 2008 in the second column and scroll down. Reinhard does not sell seeds but his associate Manfred Hahm does, but no need to go that way since I'll be again offering it in my seed offer and many here got it from me last year as well.

My seeds are from Reinhard directly and I've known him for many many years. In the growout you're looking at (2008) you'll also see him trialing some of my varieties since we usually exchange seeds each year.

And by all means click on his Photogallerie for pictures of hundreds of varieties.

[Linda10]

Fred, I've tried several Green-when-ripes over the years and so far my favorites are Green Giant and Cherokee Green (tied but totally different flavors), Grub's Mystery Green and Walthrup Green. Favorite green cherry tomatoes are Aunt Ruby's German Green cherry and Green Doctors/Green Doctors Frosted.

In 2011, I've decided to try all my greens in the same year, so I'll be trying:

Absinthe
Aunt Ruby's German Green
Cherokee Green
Cherokee Green Pear
Dorothy's Green
Evergreen
Garden Lime
Green Bell Pepper
Green Copia
Green Giant
Green Magic (not sure if this is really green?)
Green Pineapple
Green Thumb
Green Velvet
Green Wish
Green Zebra
Greenwich
Grub's Mystery Green
Humph
Kiwi
Lime Green Salad
Malakhitovaya Shkatulka
Marz Green
Moldovan Green
Orange Green Zebra
Spears Tennessee Green
Verde Rallado
Walthrup Green

If things go as planned (do they ever?), I'll try to write up a report to post at the end of the 2011 season.

[tam91]

Thank you Carolyn. And I get to try to remember some of my German. Pretty rusty, sadly.

Green Zebra Cherry looks interesting, I'll await your seed offer.

[travis]

Some of my favorite tomatoes are green when ripe types. Previously, all the GWR types I grew had yellow epidermis which leads to an amber coloring when fully ripe, and I find that somewhat distracting aesthetically on a few of the tomatoes that otherwise taste very good and look beautiful inside.

So lately I've concentrated on growing GWR types with clear epidermis for two reasons. First, I prefer the way they look, especially when they have a pink blush rather than the sometimes more muddy looking amber blush. Secondly, clear skin tomatoes seem to taste superior at least to me.

I can't name any particular clear skin GWR types that I grow, other than Green Giant, because the other four or five clear skin GWR types are crosses I've made, or mutations from other tomatoes. The best tasting of the clear skin GWR tomatoes I've grown in the past two summers also are bicolor. They taste the best I think maybe because the clear skin, bicolor GWR ones seem to combine sweet melon flavors with a bit of citrus.

[carolyn137]

Originally Posted by travis

Some of my favorite tomatoes are green when ripe types. Previously, all the GWR types I grew had yellow epidermis which leads to an amber coloring when fully ripe, and I find that somewhat distracting aesthetically on a few of the tomatoes that otherwise taste very good and look beautiful inside.

So lately I've concentrated on growing GWR types with clear epidermis for two reasons. First, I prefer the way they look, especially when they have a pink blush rather than the sometimes more muddy looking amber blush. Secondly, clear skin tomatoes seem to taste superior at least to me.

I can't name any particular clear skin GWR types that I grow, other than Green Giant, because the other four or five clear skin GWR types are crosses I've made, or mutations from other tomatoes. The best tasting of the clear skin GWR tomatoes I've grown in the past two summers also are bicolor. They taste the best I think maybe because the clear skin, bicolor GWR ones seem to combine sweet melon flavors with a bit of citrus.

Travis, I'm sorry that when I grew Green Giant I didn't check the epidermis and I mention that b'c I got an amber blush suggesting a yellow epidermis and some others have as well.

So much so that some feel that there can be temperature expression of genes and that those who grow Green Giant in the south usually don't see the amber blush. I just checked the 2010 SSE listings for it and I think there were 3/8 who reported an amber blush.

I contacted Reinhard about it, he's the one who introduced it, and he said that he now grows all of his plants in greenhouses and it does get hot in there and I think he said he hadn't or seldom sees an amber blush. Somewhere I have that e-mail with his answer to me but I'm not going after it tonight.

Well, I did find it quickly and to understand it he got this variety from Canada and it was RL and he found one plant that was PL and he was the one who named it.

*****

<<Do you always get clear green with Green Giant when both Neil and I get amber?>>

5 years ago I got seeds of "Green Giant" from Canada. From 30 seedlings, one was PL. I also cultivated this one and did some selections. My ripe fruits look exactly like Craig describes them.
Incidentally "Aunt Ruby's German Green Cherry" also has such a clear skin color.
A ripe RL "Green Giant" has the same coloring as "Aunt Rubys German Green" (which is amber-colored), however with a little bit more of red. You can look up the difference at a friend's website from Switzerland, that shows both - above PL, below RL:

http://ginsterfarm.ch/Pflanzen/Tomaten/GreenGiant.htm

Possibly, the coloring has something to do with the average temperature during the cultivation and the ripeness. I grow all my tomatoes in greenhouses.


So that's his take on the amber blush and when he was referring to Craig, above, it's b/c Craig in NC was getting no amber blush.

[travis]

I grew Aunt Ruby's German Green Cherry this year and it had a clear epidermis.

The Green Giant I grow has a clear epidermis, and when I cross it with a yellow epidermis variety, I get the anticipated 25% clear skin sibling in the F2 grow out. I don't remember where I got my Green Giant seeds, I'd have to look in my notes, but it's potato leaf and definitely has a clear epidermis.

Two of the other GWR types I'm working with both have Cherokee Purple in their parentage, at some distance, and both of those also have clear epidermis. I prefer these slightly over the ones with Green Giant parentage.

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Linda10

Green Magic (not sure if this is really green?)

I consider it to be a green-when-ripe tricolor. It's been recently renamed to Captain Lucky btw - Lucky Cross is one of the parents.

[Linda10]

Thanks Suze! I'll add that information to my notes. I picked up the seeds at SettFest but my picture of the fruit didn't show up, so I wasn't sure why I liked it

[Suze]

Originally Posted by Linda10

Thanks Suze! I'll add that information to my notes. I picked up the seeds at SettFest but my picture of the fruit didn't show up, so I wasn't sure why I liked it

I guess I could have posted a picture - here are two.