Soil - not self-watering - Page 2

tam91 · February 19, 2011

Well I can assure you, I'm not moving the things! I'd break my back.

OK, I will try to improve aeration.

Ami, did I read correctly, you are using a mixture of peat, bark fines, and perlite only?

In thinking about it, I'm not crazy about the perlite - because I eventually dump the containers out into the garden, and it just seems artificial to me. Maybe that's silly, I'm not growing organic or something, but it just doesn't seem natural. I understand it wouldn't hurt anything, it just bothers me somehow though. I'm only growing in containers because I am forced, I would much rather just be digging in the dirt.

So if I were to use peat, mushroom compost, and bark fines - would that seem to be a good mix? If so, in what proportion?

b54red · February 19, 2011

Tam you are so lucky to have a source of bulk mushroom compost. I lost my source a couple of years ago and I really miss using it. It is virtually weed free and needs very little added to it as a growing medium for container plants. There are two problems with it that I found.

The first is it tends to dry out fairly fast and it breaks down fairly fast. I fixed this by adding perlite or bark to retain the good aeration and water absorbing crystals to slow down the drying. I grew some really nice tomato plants in it and have not found a mix of other ingredients that can compare.
It also needed little fertilizing compared to the soiless mixes that I have used since.

The second problem I had is that my bulk mushroom compost had a very high ph. It usually ran from 7.3 up to 8 which is really high for tomatoes but they will still grow in it. You should probably check the ph and see what it is and try to adjust it if it is as high as the compost I was getting. There are several things you can add to lower it a bit. I would use some cottonseed meal which will also add a lot of slow release fertilizer to your container and maybe a bit of aluminum sulfate.

tam91 · February 19, 2011

Thanks - I'll try to check the ph.

If I remember correctly, the peat holds water also, doesn't it? So if I had mushroom compost and peat, with bark fines for aeration...?

amideutch · February 19, 2011

Tam, you should be fine with the compost, peat and bark fines. The Bark fines should help in lowering the PH and the peat as well as both are acid and will bring down the high PH of the mushroom compost. Perlite is an organic product and adding it to the garden soil after using in a container would only improve your garden soil. Understand your concern but thought I would throw that in. Ami

tam91 · February 19, 2011

Thanks - I'll try to come up with some bark fines.

I see the perlite is volcanic glass. Interesting. I'm not growing organically or anything, I guess if I look at my ground I just don't expect to see little white dots. Yes, I realize that is wierd of me - what can I say.

My garden soil is beautiful, lovely rich loam that's never been farmed. But... $%(*$# walnut trees. Ah well, beans and things go nuts. Interestingly, peppers do fine also (the walnut roots must be deep, so the peppers survive).

ContainerTed · February 19, 2011

Speaking of mushroom compost, I had 7 plants left at the end of planting season last year. Didn't want to crowd the already overcrowded garden, so I decided to put them in buckets. Too cheap to go buy some MG or whatever, so loaded the buckets with 100% mushroom compost to use up what was left of that.

The tomatoes and the one pepper did just fine. Couldn't tell they were deterred or stressed or anything.

Tam, use that fresh Mushroom Compost and you'll be fine. Next year, just add some nutrients to the old stuff and keep on a'going.

Ted

ireilly · February 19, 2011

Tam, perlite is just heat-expanded volcanic glass. If you look at this link under the chemical composition, it is all oxides of minerals and metals that occur naturally. Nothing exotic added.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlite

OTOH, vermiculite has a spotty environmental record because of the problems that happened when WR Grace mined and marketed Zonolite from the Libby, Montana mine. Vermiculite is also a naturally-occurring mineral but some impurities in this and other mines leads to the inclusion of asbestos as a breakdown product in the formation of vermiculite. Many lawsuits, and homes still have this stuff in their insulation. This stopped production in the 1990s, and agricultural vermiculite is deemed to be safe, although it is a dusty product and filters should be used anyway. Vermiculite I think holds more water than perlite does.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermicu..._contamination

Walter

February 19, 2011	#19
amideutch Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Germany 49°26"N 07°36"E Posts: 5,041	Tam, you should be fine with the compost, peat and bark fines. The Bark fines should help in lowering the PH and the peat as well as both are acid and will bring down the high PH of the mushroom compost. Perlite is an organic product and adding it to the garden soil after using in a container would only improve your garden soil. Understand your concern but thought I would throw that in. Ami __________________ Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting ‘...Holy Crap .....What a ride!'

February 19, 2011	#21
ContainerTed Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: 6a - NE Tennessee Posts: 4,538	Speaking of mushroom compost, I had 7 plants left at the end of planting season last year. Didn't want to crowd the already overcrowded garden, so I decided to put them in buckets. Too cheap to go buy some MG or whatever, so loaded the buckets with 100% mushroom compost to use up what was left of that. The tomatoes and the one pepper did just fine. Couldn't tell they were deterred or stressed or anything. Tam, use that fresh Mushroom Compost and you'll be fine. Next year, just add some nutrients to the old stuff and keep on a'going. Ted __________________ Ted ________________________ Owner & Sole Operator Of The Muddy Bucket Farm and Tomato Ranch

February 19, 2011	#16
tam91 Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Crystal Lake IL Posts: 2,484	Well I can assure you, I'm not moving the things! I'd break my back. OK, I will try to improve aeration. Ami, did I read correctly, you are using a mixture of peat, bark fines, and perlite only? In thinking about it, I'm not crazy about the perlite - because I eventually dump the containers out into the garden, and it just seems artificial to me. Maybe that's silly, I'm not growing organic or something, but it just doesn't seem natural. I understand it wouldn't hurt anything, it just bothers me somehow though. I'm only growing in containers because I am forced, I would much rather just be digging in the dirt. So if I were to use peat, mushroom compost, and bark fines - would that seem to be a good mix? If so, in what proportion?

February 19, 2011	#17
b54red Tomatovillian™ Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 7,068	Tam you are so lucky to have a source of bulk mushroom compost. I lost my source a couple of years ago and I really miss using it. It is virtually weed free and needs very little added to it as a growing medium for container plants. There are two problems with it that I found. The first is it tends to dry out fairly fast and it breaks down fairly fast. I fixed this by adding perlite or bark to retain the good aeration and water absorbing crystals to slow down the drying. I grew some really nice tomato plants in it and have not found a mix of other ingredients that can compare. It also needed little fertilizing compared to the soiless mixes that I have used since. The second problem I had is that my bulk mushroom compost had a very high ph. It usually ran from 7.3 up to 8 which is really high for tomatoes but they will still grow in it. You should probably check the ph and see what it is and try to adjust it if it is as high as the compost I was getting. There are several things you can add to lower it a bit. I would use some cottonseed meal which will also add a lot of slow release fertilizer to your container and maybe a bit of aluminum sulfate.

February 19, 2011	#22
ireilly Tomatovillian™ Join Date: May 2010 Location: Dallas Posts: 344	Tam, perlite is just heat-expanded volcanic glass. If you look at this link under the chemical composition, it is all oxides of minerals and metals that occur naturally. Nothing exotic added. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlite OTOH, vermiculite has a spotty environmental record because of the problems that happened when WR Grace mined and marketed Zonolite from the Libby, Montana mine. Vermiculite is also a naturally-occurring mineral but some impurities in this and other mines leads to the inclusion of asbestos as a breakdown product in the formation of vermiculite. Many lawsuits, and homes still have this stuff in their insulation. This stopped production in the 1990s, and agricultural vermiculite is deemed to be safe, although it is a dusty product and filters should be used anyway. Vermiculite I think holds more water than perlite does. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vermicu..._contamination Walter